Evidence of meeting #9 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was beef.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Claire Citeau  Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Dan Darling  President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Jim Everson  Executive Director, Soy Canada
Don McCabe  President, Ontario Federation of Agriculture
John Masswohl  Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance

Claire Citeau

Maybe I'll give you a brief comment. Malaysia is one of those countries, and Vietnam another, that our members are very interested in in terms of the TPP. Of course, there are others in Asia, but our members are interested in Vietnam and Malaysia in particular. Vietnam has a fast-growing market of 90 million people, with a growing middle class as well. These are definitely markets of interest.

4:55 p.m.

Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

John Masswohl

Yes, Malaysia is probably a market that will be significant in the future. Until now, it hasn't been. Again, it's very similar to Vietnam. The difference between Vietnam and Malaysia is that Malaysia still has BSE trade restrictions, and we can't ship beef to Malaysia. With these BSE restrictions, we've tended to work on priority and putting the resources and the effort into the markets where the potential is there right now. Certainly, we want all those restrictions to eventually be lifted.

I think one of the other reasons why Malaysia hasn't been high on the priority list for us for beef is that it needs to be halal production, which isn't all that significant but is growing in Canada. In fact, we've actually seen large gains into Saudi Arabia. As the Saudi Arabian and Middle East markets grow, again you have the other pieces in those animals, and Malaysia can become interesting.

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Soy Canada

Jim Everson

We have a fairly significant market in Malaysia for food-grade exports, and we see the potential to continue to build on that. I wanted to comment on this in support of something that Mr. McCabe said.

For a lot of these issues when it comes to TBT—trade barriers—it requires some really good science to help them. One of the things Don pointed out that I think is really important is resources for the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. When it comes to market access issues, we have a very strong market access secretariat at Agriculture Canada, and they're very, very good and very helpful, but there's also that whole science aspect to it, and that has to be led by regulators who have credibility in science regulation.

We've seen that in the low-level presence discussion. You can't pursue that on a political basis. You have to pursue that kind of discussion on a regulatory science-based basis. CFIA now has a lot more of those kinds of issues coming at it as a result of all these technical barriers coming up.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Everson.

Mr. Longfield.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

I hope we can continue along this line of thought. I think Mr. McCabe brought up a point that I was alluding to earlier, namely that trade deals don't necessarily result in the trade conditions you're trying to get to. From a producer's standpoint, you can see that you're opening up a big market; there's a big opportunity. As a processor, you might look at that a little differently if your technology isn't up to speed or you have some internal issues that mean you are not able to compete against other countries, either currency-wise, labour-wise, or otherwise. Then you have the consumers. As one of our colleagues asked, where does this end up with the consumers, the people we are representing here at the table today?

We're getting a good sense that producers see this as a good deal, but I'd like to maybe bring it back to Mr. McCabe. We have the Canada Border Services Agency that's going to play a role here. We have the CFIA that plays a role here. We have Industry Canada. I tweeted this morning that we're conducting consultations across Canada on the TPP, and there's a parl.gc.ca website where we can ask for input. But from a practical perspective, how do we see this rolling out, and what is the risk? What are the risks for processors and consumers? It's not that I'm against this, or that our government is against it, but we're trying to analyze it, not just jump in with it.

5 p.m.

President, Ontario Federation of Agriculture

Don McCabe

Part of the time, it's important to remember where you came from, and on this particular venture I have to quote my dearly departed father, who said, “Boy, you can do all the custom work you want as soon as you take care of things at home.”

The reality that I'm trying portray is that Canada has to have the TPP for us to be able to continue to build our marketplace and move ahead. At the same time, we need to deeply improve interprovincial movement. We need to clear up some of the regulatory stuff that does not allow certain segments of our producers to be able to actively participate in some of these trade agreements, because they won't have a processing plant that's going to back them to be part of that value chain.

There are sugar beets, for example, that go out of Lambton and King counties. The very first time those things try to cross the border, the U.S. will make things very interesting for a few nights until things resolve.

The reality is that you can have the greatest opportunities on paper—and last time I checked, paper doesn't refuse ink—but there are people involved here. If there's an angle to stop or slow something down, you have to have absolutely clear dispute mechanisms in place that allow you to move with the best science. Right now, we're not illustrating our best within this country or within certain provinces. I'm very concerned about that, even for Canadian consumers.

In Toronto, every second person you meet is not necessarily from a Canadian background. They are already at the point of wishing to have halal meats or other commodities. The bottom line is that Ontario produces 200 of them. We are going to produce more in the future. We have opportunities to learn what we can do in our own backyard and then export to the world. Therefore, we're back to the TPP. It's very important, but do not underfund our credibility, our certification, and our science, in order to be able to exploit that TPP or CETA.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

We had a round table that you participated in Guelph with the agriculture community, and we had Parliamentary Secretary Lametti there, trying to look at some of the social impacts of this type of a deal. The interprovincial thing is an issue. We have CETA so we can deal with Europe, but we can't ship from Ontario to British Columbia. You can't get Ontario wines in Manitoba; you can only get British Columbia wines in Manitoba. So we do have a lot of housecleaning to do.

I'll share my time with Mr. Drouin.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

How much time do I have?

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

A minute and a half.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

I would like to echo some of the comments Mr. Gourde made.

Mr. Darling and Mr. Masswohl, I know you guys have done a tremendous job of implementing animal care programs in Canada, and I fully support your efforts. I know that the industry responsible for the animal care of chickens, and other farmers across the country, has done a tremendous job. We are an example to the world with regards to animal care.

Mr. McCabe, I just want to touch upon one point. I know you said that you wouldn't comment on the supply managed sector, but the reason I ask is that I have a lot of young farmers in my riding, and they are somewhat worried about their future. Do you feel that the announcement of the suite of programs, which I believe was on October 5, incentivizes young farmers to join the supply managed sector with regards to those programs? Do you have an opinion on that?

5:05 p.m.

President, Ontario Federation of Agriculture

Don McCabe

One thing I'm sure of is that I will always have an opinion. That's the reality I would hope this committee is looking toward, not only at the TPP agreement but also the replacement for Growing Forward 2, so that both will continue to incentivize and assist Canadian agriculture to reach its full potential. Therefore, for a young farmer, whether or not they wish to be in supply management, grains and oilseeds, or some form of animal production or into horticultural production, the reality is that they need to have a solid business plan so they can see that the value was there to proceed to look for financial backing to get there.

So when there are issues sitting out there right now that may give rise to questions about some of this or raise the ire of a banker who doesn't understand.... The reality is that when the grandfathers of today's grandfathers retired, 50% of the population was still farming. When a grandfather retires today, it's now 1.4%.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. McCabe.

Ms. Brosseau, the floor is yours and you have six minutes.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think this has been a really great committee. In the last Parliament, we did study the CETA deal. A lot of positive comments and recommendations have been made, and we know that over the past few years, the CFIA has undergone some big changes. They are responsible for monitoring and inspecting imports and exports. I think just recently, a few months ago, there were a lot of articles by the union that represents workers saying that inspectors were worried about the conditions and the state of our CFIA. So I think there is some work that needs to be done in making sure that they do have adequate resources, so that people who actually work on the floor feel secure and comfortable with the way things are going.

Because we did do a study on CETA at committee in the last Parliament, I'm just going to ask the following question of the chair or to maybe the committee as a whole. Are we going to be doing a study on this, or are we just holding two meetings on the TPP? I don't think he's listening.

Sorry. I was talking about how great it was, because we know that the trade committee is doing a study and they're travelling right now. They're in B.C. In the last Parliament, at the agriculture committee, we studied the CETA. I was just wondering, are we going to be having more meetings on the TPP?

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

We have one more scheduled for this week.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Will we be doing a report on that?

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

It's at the pleasure of the committee whether or not they want to do a report.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Okay.

Would I be able to put forward a motion that we do a report? We know the importance of this trade deal, and agriculture is a piece of the puzzle, as half of what we produce here in Canada is exported. I was wondering just to make sure that the testimony that we hear today and later this week will bear fruit.... We have some recommendations. I know everybody has been very supportive of the TPP, but there are some things that I think we need to include in the report and maybe talk a little bit about the importance of transport.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Did you want to make a motion?

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Yes, that we study the TPP and produce a report to the House.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

So we have a motion on the floor that the committee adopt a report on the study of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and report its conclusions to the House.

You have a question?

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Could we maybe handle this in committee business on Wednesday when we're looking at what our schedule is going to be going forward?

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Are there any other comments?

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Chris Warkentin Conservative Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB

I would just state that I think we've discussed it at length already, and obviously today we've heard the testimony that would probably confirm what our suspicions were, so I think it's probably best to get to the vote.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Are there any further comments?

If not, I will ask the committee.

All in favour of the motion?

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Can we have a recorded vote?