Agriculture Committee on March 7th, 2018

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Again, I'm a guest at this committee today, and I appreciate being here. I'm going to draw on some historical knowledge. I've been talking to some of the other people in the room who were here before, when we did this the last time. We had two meetings, and then we had five meetings on Bill C-30, which was the legislation, so you could say that in 2013-14 we had seven meetings to talk about this.

Right now in my riding I have a farmer-owned rail line that has 65 loaded cars sitting there. They have been sitting there and sitting there, and when they are sitting there full of grain, that means everything else behind them is full of grain, so the farmer-owned terminal is full of grain.

To say, okay, we're going to come back when it's convenient for us, I don't think is appropriate. I think we should come back next week and show them that we are committed to this. To me, the 15th makes a lot of sense, because CN and CP are supposed to have that data for us on what their game plan is moving forward.

It's nice to see CN publish it in the paper. I think that's good, but I've had them do this to me in the past so many times when the railways said that they were going to do this and do that. When it comes to actuality, it never happens. That's why you need to have penalties in place. You need to have an order in council in place. That's why I think you need to have the Minister of Transport here, listening to those farmers. He should be here for the full four or eight hours, whatever we do, to really get an understanding of the impact this has on people's livelihoods and on their families, their farms, and their operations.

I would suggest that we come back on the 15th and do the whole day. The ministers can be here. The stakeholders can be here. The farmers can be here. You can take any committee room you want. You can televise it so that people back in western Canada can watch us and listen. It would show from this committee that we're serious, that we're taking this issue very seriously, and that we care.

This isn't a partisan issue. You'll find that at least in the past it has never been a partisan issue. We're on the same side in fighting for our farmers and our producers. CN and CP are the problem here again, unfortunately, and we can learn from the things we did in 2013-14. We can make some fixes and do some improvements in the order in council to make it more effective and efficient. We can have something in place so that the producers know they have a backstop right now, and then Bill C-49 will do what Bill C-49 does, with amendments or without amendments, split apart or not split apart.

The reality on Bill C-49 is that even if you wrote them a letter today, the Senate won't read it until probably the 21st, and then, in terms of the reaction time from there, we would probably be looking at May, June, or July. That's not even a feasible option. You would have more impact by writing a letter to the ministers, because they can do stuff right now. They can do an order in council tonight if they so choose. They can take action if they so choose.

[An hon. member]

That's right.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Again, I'd encourage you to do it next week, on the 15th. Do the full day. Show people you're really serious about it. From there, let's see what comes out of that meeting, but I think the minister should be looking at what that order in council could look like.

I'm offering sound advice based on being through this in the past. We're not asking for seven meetings. We're basically asking for a commitment to really flesh this out right now, in one day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Hoback.

Monsieur Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I'd like to hear where my colleague Mr. Breton stands on that request. In other words, are there any technical or logistical issues that would prevent us from meeting on March 15?

I can see there's goodwill on both sides of the table for this meeting. We are doing this to find a solution for farmers. Mr. Hoback experienced the last crisis; he was there. He spoke about it. We also heard Ms. Brosseau say that urgent action was needed. I think this is an opportunity to take that action, if, indeed, everyone is available.

I'd like to hear what Mr. Breton has to say. Then, with your permission, Mr. Chair, we can try to simplify things for the clerk. We are currently discussing a subamendment to a subamendment, which complicates things a little.

First, however, I'd like to hear what my colleague has to say in response to the last two members who spoke.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Breton, the floor is yours.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

I will be brief.

We've been talking for 75 minutes today. I think we have made progress since the beginning of the meeting. We went from a two-hour meeting on March 21 to a possible four-hour meeting on March 19. We are in agreement with the motion submitted by our colleagues. We feel that everyone is supporting the grain producers in this file. We can't agree on the date, but today I have not heard any partisan comments.

I think that at this point everyone has been heard and has expressed their point of view. I don't know what procedure we want to use but I would like us to vote to settle this matter. I would like us to vote on the proposed subamendment which is that we hold a four-hour meeting on March 19 from 3:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., and that the list of witnesses be sent to Madam Clerk at the latest by March 15, at 5:00 p.m.

I would now like us to vote on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

If you are ready, we are going to vote on the subamendment.

There is just one thing to be changed in the subamendment, at the request of the clerk. Do you agree to set the deadline for receiving witness lists at March 12 rather than March 15? This will allow the clerk to do her work well and to have time to call the witnesses we want to receive here.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

We have a lot of things on the table. It's really complicated. If Mr. Breton would change his amendment, I would withdraw my subamendment. If he would propose an amendment to the motion, including all of the recommendations, I think it would be easier. That's my opinion. I am ready to withdraw the subamendment I submitted in order that we have only one amendment. Otherwise, it's complicated.

Personally, I would like to avoid having to move a subamendment. I agree on the result, but I am not completely in agreement on the date and I would like the amendment to take that into account.

Mr. Breton, I think that you would agree that we not limit ourselves to farmers. The first hour could be devoted to CN and CP, and during the subsequent hours, we could hear witnesses from the suggested witness list. In that way, we would give the clerk some leeway in organizing the meeting.

Mr. Breton, if you wish, the request that the meeting be televised could be added to your amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

If we have the unanimous consent of the members of the committee, we can proceed in that manner. It is up to you to decide.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I withdraw my subamendment.

(Subamendment withdrawn)

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

You must withdraw the subamendment and the amendment before proposing a new amendment.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

It was Mr. Breton's amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Do we all agree that Mr. Breton's amendment be withdrawn and that he present a new one? If we withdraw that amendment, we erase everything and go back to square one, so to speak. Then we can debate Mr. Breton's new amendment.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

These are technical details.

(Amendment withdrawn)

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I am going to read the new amendment as I have it before me; it integrates the proposals from the subamendment. You can tell me what you think.

The amendment moves that this meeting take place on Monday, March 19, that it last four hours, and that the members of the committee be invited to submit their witness lists to the clerk, including contact information, by March 12, 2018, 5:00 p.m., at the latest.

Is there anything else?

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I'd like to ask Mr. Breton whether he would accept to add that the meeting be televised so that people out west can listen to us.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Fine. We will add to the amendment that the meeting will be televised.

Has everyone heard the amendment?

Ms. Brosseau, did you want to add a comment?

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Would it be possible to invite the ministers? I think it would be really important to have the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture here. I know that we've just started over and got rid of all the subamendments we had to the original motion, so I don't want to come back and add too many amendments to this motion.

I still think we need to look at this next week. Looking at it on the 19th is so far ahead. A day in politics is a long time. I would love to have this issue before committee next week, but I think what's really important is having the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture come before committee to talk about their plan and what kinds of tools they are thinking about using. Four hours goes really fast.

Mr. Breton, would it be possible to invite the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, and especially the Minister of Transport, Mr. Garneau, to appear before the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I'd like to point out that these people can be on the list of witnesses you are going to submit, if you wish.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I think it would be important to include that in the motion. Of course, we are going to provide our witness lists for our study of grain transport prices. My list is already ready. I think, however, that the motion should, by all means, specify that the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, and especially the Minister of Transport, should be present.

I want to check with the members of the Liberal Party to see if they are open to the idea of inviting the ministers responsible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

In that case, Ms. Brosseau, it will have to be a subamendment.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

We are going to begin with a vote on the subamendment and then we can go back to the amendment.

Does anyone have any other comments to make?

If there are no other comments, we shall vote on the subamendment by Ms. Brosseau that we invite both the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture to that meeting on the 19th of March.