Agriculture Committee on March 19th, 2018

[Gerry Ritz]

No, but the collaboration did. That's what it's all about. It's about the line companies knowing what's going to happen on any given week, knowing how many cars they're actually going to get so they can call Jeffrey and tell him to load up that Super B and get it in here on Tuesday because we've got a car. It's the collaborative thing that makes the biggest difference so that there's partnership within the supply chain and everybody knows what the other guy's going to do when and how they're going to do it. That's the key.

[Jeff Nielsen]

If I can say so, we're past the point of severe weather, or what they call severe weather. Severe weather is the biggest red herring I've ever seen in my lifetime, but we're past that point. We have longer sunshine days now, longer days, and they're getting warmer. Yes, there could be an issue with washouts or something once the snow does melt, but when Minister Ritz at that time put the order in council in, it was in the spring too, and grain handling actually got better. It's getting better now because we're into spring.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's exactly the point I'm getting to. Some folks are calling for an order in council, but is it going to have the impact that we wish? Do we really need to do that in order to have an impact?

[Gerry Ritz]

It's a Band-Aid.

[Jeff Nielsen]

We need the bill passed.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

In regard to spring, we've heard testimony today on whether or not the order in council had an impact when spring weather changes and whatnot, so there's still a debate on whether or not it had an actual impact.

I completely agree that there needs to be predictability—

[Gerry Ritz]

It did have an impact, since 60 boats got loaded.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, but in springtime, they're saying whether or not.... The port of Thunder Bay opened, but it was closed during the wintertime. Anyway, I don't want to get into that debate. That's past.

[Gerry Ritz]

Sure.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Nielsen, what do you believe? You've mentioned that there needs to be greater collaboration between the House and the Senate and that we need to pass Bill C-49 as quickly as possible. Is it your wish that we amend it or that we just get it passed? Again, we're getting mixed messages from industry on that.

[Jeff Nielsen]

It may come from the industry side that you're getting mixed messages, but I think if you look at.... I'm not sure who you're thinking of on the industry side. The grain growers sit on the crop logistics working group, whose mandate Minister MacAulayrenewed last summer, and that whole committee fully agrees on the proposed amendments that we have put forward.

When you have that diversity—and Mr. Bjornson made the comment earlier in the past panel—from oilseed crushers to elevator companies to farmers to farm organizations, and we all agree that these amendments will make this bill that much stronger.... We don't want to deal with this four years from now. It's been 30 years since we've had transportation legislation such as this come forward. We're very impressed with this legislation. We want it done right. That's why we're proposing the amendments. They will ensure that things are done right.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I understand the Senate will be dealing with clause-by-clause consideration by March 27. Normally that's good news. It means that it should get through committee fairly shortly.

Mr. Boxall, you mentioned cars that were loaded up that were not being picked up for weeks. I certainly believe we need predictability in the marketplace, especially if we want to get to $75 billion. I know, Mr. Nielsen, your members have said we can contribute to that.

From a farmer's perspective, how do you believe that a government can improve predictability in the marketplace, especially on the transportation side? I'm hoping we can re-invite Mr. Boxall later on, when we complete our study, to hear how to get to $75 billion, because I think your witness testimony would be really appreciated.

What can the government or industry do better to get there?

[Ian Boxall]

Address what has been said here about communication and collaboration, about making sure that everybody within the whole supply chain knows what's going on.

I've been phoned several times this winter to load the trucks and then been phoned and told not to because the train didn't show up. We can't have that. That doesn't work in an industry like ours. It doesn't work when I've pre-sold my grain for cash flow because of storage costs, or for other reasons I've done it because of price. Communication needs to be better among all aspects of the supply chain.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We've heard from previous testimony that the industry and the rail companies meet with farm groups before projections, but there is not necessarily that collaboration to review what happened this year or the previous year to see how we can fix it. Would you welcome a vehicle for collaboration after the fact to see what we can improve on in the following year?

[Ian Boxall]

Absolutely.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We're going to put the legislation in place, but legislation without resources is just legislation. Would you welcome that?

[Ian Boxall]

Absolutely—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Unfortunately, we're out of time. Perhaps you can answer it later on.

Thank you, Mr. Drouin. Mr. MacGregor, you have six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ritz, I'll start with you because you were minister for quite a long time, so you've seen it from Minister MacAulay's perspective.

I wanted to go back in history a little to the role that the Canadian Wheat Board used to play in shipping grain. Can you tell me what its role was, as you understood it to be, before the legislation in 2011?

[Gerry Ritz]

The big thing is that they were a monopoly buyer, not a monopoly seller. They put out a three-bushel quota. It made it easier for the railways to keep up, because they'd put out a three-bushel quota up in Ian's area, but I wouldn't get it. Railways could concentrate on Ian's area in that couple-of-weeks stint and get the grain out of there. They did the same thing with Jeff. There was no western Canada-wide movement of commodities. They'd pick and choose and try to keep it fair for everybody so that we all starved to death. I never cleaned out my bins, not once, not ever. We always have a carry-over, even now, but not to the extent that we did then.

The first couple of years that I farmed, they never sold a bushel. I wasn't allowed to sell it to anybody else. I wasn't allowed to trade it. I had grain on the ground, and it rotted. I lost a ton of value there. They'd buy, and then they would make a deal with the grain company here to move product over there. Even when it got to their terminals in Vancouver and a boat came in, they'd say to take some from Ian's terminal, some from Jeff's terminal, and they'd move that boat here and there, to the point that some of the shippers wouldn't even come in and pick it up because it's hard on the carcass of a boat to move it out half-loaded and shove it back in again.

It was easy for the railways to keep up because they were getting little bits and dribs and drabs here and there and so on. The blending was done on the Prairies. If I hauled in a grade 2 and I wanted it brought to grade 1, they would mix in some of Randy's and bring both of us up to grade 1. They would still pay me for a grade 2, and he'd get his grade 1.

Now the blending is done mostly at port and is not done as much on the Prairies, so you have to coordinate those trains coming into the ports to blend that product. That's why 2014 was easy to do with that blunt instrument of minimums, because it was all the same. Every other year we've had low protein here and higher grades over there that we needed to move, but it's all done at port now in a different way.

With the Wheat Board gone, it made it tougher for the railways to keep up. The shippers like it, and for the most part the farmers have liked it.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I have talked with the B. C. Chamber of Shipping, and when the Wheat Board was dissolved.... Are there any lessons we can learn from the transition from them to what we have today that may serve us well?

[Gerry Ritz]

I think the biggest lesson is that we should have done it 10 years sooner.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

What I meant is that it did lead to some backlogs at port. The B.C. Chamber of—

[Gerry Ritz]

It was actually done in 2012-13. The first year that there was a problem was in 2013-14. There was a big crop, and so on.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Are there lessons that we can learn for the current government going forward, in how we could have maybe better coordinated that transition going forward?

The Chamber of Shipping of B.C. has told me that in the years following there was a bit of a mix-up, and it did lead to the increased use of anchorages along the southern Gulf Islands. The loading at port wasn't as efficient as it used to be.

I'm just wondering, going forward, if there are any lessons.