Evidence of meeting #11 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marian Campbell Jarvis  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Matt de Vlieger  Director General, Immigration, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Louis Dumas  Acting Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Jonathan Wallace  Director General, Temporary Foreign Workers Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard

3 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Ellis, as you likely know, this is a shared portfolio, so it really does involve a number of ministries coming together to open the pathway to allow a temporary worker to come to Canada. One is at my department, IRCC, where we issue the visa, the travel document, but it also requires in the vast majority of instances a work permit, which is issued as a result of a labour market impact assessment issued by my colleague, Minister Qualtrough, and her department.

The reason we have both of these two departments collaborating is to ensure that we're allying the skills and experience from abroad with those parts of the economy where it's proven to be difficult to recruit domestic labour. The flexibility that we've introduced very recently is really a reflection of the need to find ways to fill those gaps even more effectively during COVID-19, and of our not necessarily having the luxury of waiting for the usual timelines to expire before somebody can start that new job.

This again is the product of a lot of consultation and a lot of feedback we've gotten from provinces, farmers and other leaders in the industry.

3 p.m.

Liberal

Neil Ellis Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON

Thank you.

I'll flip to the chair now. I believe he has a question.

3 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you. I have more of a statement.

Being the only MP from New Brunswick and also being a producer, I don't have temporary foreign workers. As most of you may know, New Brunswick is the only province in Canada that has not allowed temporary foreign workers to come in. Today the premier has said that's starting next Friday, but as you can imagine, there is another 14 days after next Friday.

There's already been some damage. I spoke to producers as late as yesterday. For example, there's a disconnect between the farming community and the general public. They think that anybody off the street can walk in and have the skills that are needed on a farm. These are highly skilled workers whom you can absolutely not replace overnight. One farmer was telling me he's hired two. One came in, he got him on the tractor and he ripped the side of the service truck with the mower.

I want to highlight the need to try to connect more with the general public that these are highly skilled workers. We definitely need them. Some of the farmers experienced some crop loss. Some never seeded. I wanted to highlight that.

I don't know, Mr. Minister, if you want to comment on that. It's affected our producers. It's a disadvantage to all the rest of Canada. Thank you.

3 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

I don't have much to add. I think you put it very eloquently. It's a cautionary tale to stop and think before anyone jumps on a John Deere and thinks they know what they're doing.

No, Mr. Chair, I echo the sentiments very much. Certainly it was my intention today to shine a light on the significant contribution of temporary foreign workers and to help educate Canadians that throughout this pandemic we are very much dependent on these workers right now who are coming, who are planting, who are seeding, who are beginning to harvest. This is work they do year-round. They work pretty much 365 days a year; certainly farmers do. As a result we get access to good, healthy food. We need food. We could not do it without them.

Thank you very much.

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

On that, I'll thank you, Mr. Minister. We stretched your hour a little, but we really appreciate your coming here and having this conversation with all our MPs.

On that, we'll continue the second hour with the officials. We'll take five minutes, so if you want you can set your timer for five minutes. We'll be right back.

Again, thank you all. We'll see you in five. I will suspend for five minutes.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

We shall resume the meeting.

We'll start the questioning of the panel. You may want to direct your questions.

Again, with us from Citizenship and Immigration, we have Marian Campbell Jarvis, assistant deputy minister; Louis Dumas, acting associate assistant deputy minister; Matt de Vlieger, director general; and Jonathan Wallace from the Department of Employment and Social Development.

We will continue our round now with the Bloc, Madam Caroline Desbiens.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Are you just carrying on? We're not starting a new second hour. We're just carrying on with what we had before.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Yes, we're just carrying on. That's how we worked it out with the clerk, that we just carry on because there was really only one panel. Well, it was two panels, but it was the same department. We're just carrying on and then we'll go to the next round. We'll have two and a half minutes for the Bloc and for the NDP, and we'll start again with the Conservatives for five minutes. They will all be five-minute rounds after that.

Is that clear?

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Yes. Thank you.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Since Ms. Desbiens does not seem to be online, I give the floor to Mr. Perron.

3:10 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Ms. Desbiens can take the floor during the next round of questions.

So I will continue with questions that were asked earlier.

Earlier, the minister was saying that, a week ago, instructions that help facilitate permit renewal were implemented. The case I raised is that of a refusal. The refusal was announced this morning and was based on the lack of a new LMIA for the company, but the case involves a worker who is unable to leave the country. They just want to continue doing their job.

Would there be a way to stop requiring the LMIA in renewal cases during the crisis period?

3:15 p.m.

Marian Campbell Jarvis Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

I am sorry, but I did not hear a large portion of the question.

Mr. Perron, could you please repeat it?

3:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Of course, as long as the chair won't reduce my speaking time.

Earlier, I asked the minister about facilitating work permit renewals. I heard this morning about a case where the request was refused by an official, under the pretext that no LMIA was presented at the same time. However, the agricultural organization has obtained an LMIA in the meantime. So it could have presented it. Given that deadlines are tight, the two requests must be submitted at the same time.

Would it be possible to allow renewals without a new LMIA when the employer is the same? It seems to me that this would be pretty easy to do right now.

3:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

Thank you for the question.

Issues related to licensing and the renewal process are important to us.

My colleague Mr. Dumas could briefly explain the renewal process to you.

3:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Actually, Ms. Campbell, I'm quite comfortable with the renewal process.

I would also like to mention to the committee that there are still administrative impediments that are not necessary and that result in additional costs, aside from the delays. The producer in question had to pay for a new permit application, in addition to paying the $200 penalty to restore the status that had been withdrawn.

Currently, would there be a way to accept permit renewals without the LMIA having been obtained, or to accept them if it can be proven that the LMIA was requested? We know that the licence can be issued because it was issued before.

3:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

I'm sorry, technology is always a challenge.

I'm not familiar with the case the member mentioned.

Mr. de Vlieger, could you give more details, please?

3:15 p.m.

Matt de Vlieger Director General, Immigration, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Yes, of course.

If it's the same employer and the same position, the worker can continue to work.

3:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

You just have to make sure the information is transmitted. I sent the case this morning, so it should be resolved quickly.

Thank you.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

Mr. MacGregor, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

3:15 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you very much, Chair.

My question is related to some of the concerns our committee has heard from employers over the years. Even in their meetings with me privately they've spoken about the possible creation of a trusted employer program. This has been a long-standing thing. Some employers have sometimes decades-long relationships with their employees, but they have to go through the same application process over and over again. Many of the relationships between the employees and the employers are almost like family.

As we look to the post-COVID recovery, is the department considering anything such as that, a pilot program? Do you have any updates on what some employers have requested for getting this trusted employer status?

3:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

We have indeed heard a lot, actually, about the trusted employer notion and the concept. It is something that, working with our colleagues at Employment and Social Development Canada, we have considered. My colleague Jonathan Wallace is here from ESDC and he could add some additional details about the thinking in that space.

I would just add from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada's perspective that we certainly want to be facilitative, yet at the same time we want to ensure that we know who is in the country and for what purpose.

3:20 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Is anyone else adding anything to that? Is that it? Okay.

I have a final question. It has been estimated that for a successful 2020 growing season we're going to need approximately 70,000 temporary foreign workers in Canada. Given where we're at now and the challenges we have ahead, how confident are we that we can meet that requirement?

3:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

Mr. Chair, if it pleases the member, my colleague from the ESDC would have been able to add more details to the previous question. We could add to that in a moment.

With respect to the number of temporary foreign workers, we are certainly doing all we can to support the process. That is all the way across the continuum, working with our missions abroad, whether it's Mexico and Guatemala, to support efforts on the ground and in Mexico. We are looking at our processing here in Canada. We are doing the facilitation and the isolation measures as well.

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

I'm sorry. We're out of time. I have to move on to the next questioner.

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Now we'll go to Mr. Soroka for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Soroka.

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Actually, I think Ms. Rood is going to be taking the questions right now. She has some temporary foreign workers in her riding.