Evidence of meeting #18 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was labour.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ron Lemaire  President, Canadian Produce Marketing Association
Glenn Fraser  National Leader, Food and Beverage Processing Practice, MNP LLP
Derek Johnstone  Special Assistant to the National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada
Kelleen Tait  Partner, MNP LLP

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Now we'll go to our five-minute round.

Mr. Lehoux, you have the floor for five minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to thank the witnesses who are here this afternoon.

Mr. Fraser or Ms. Tait, you said that the AgriRecovery framework should be expanded or improved. I'd like you to elaborate on this issue. We occasionally think of different programs, but sometimes it's pointless to reinvent the wheel.

Do you have any suggestions for changes to AgriRecovery?

4:40 p.m.

Partner, MNP LLP

Kelleen Tait

Many times, our clients or the companies we're dealing with are competing against very large companies for funding with some big projects. We need something focused on food and beverage that will support the small and medium-sized enterprises in their operations. Again, technology doesn't need to be driven by something big and fancy like reinventing the wheel, when the wheel exists there.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC

On that note, in terms of public policy, you spoke about promotion along with training and automation. Should the federal government or provincial governments focus more on promoting occupations in the agri-food sector?

4:40 p.m.

Partner, MNP LLP

Kelleen Tait

There's an opportunity to really highlight these careers and these jobs to Canadians as they move through their training, to tell them those opportunities exist. As we move towards automization or a more skilled workforce, there will be increased compensation that comes with that, and hopefully some safe changes and more rewarding feedback for those employees. If we can find a way to really get that message across to Canada's youth, that would be important for both governments to focus on.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC

Thank you.

Should the federal and provincial governments work more closely together to quickly implement the code of conduct?

Do you agree that this should be done as quickly as possible?

4:45 p.m.

Partner, MNP LLP

Kelleen Tait

The grocery code of conduct is going to be something very important for the industry. A focus on transparency and predictability for all those involved would be a key success factor. Yes, I would encourage that this happen as soon as possible.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Johnstone and Mr. Lemaire, you spoke about labour issues. The industry as a whole is still short 25,000 to 30,000 workers.

Mr. Johnstone, what do you suggest?

I understand that it's necessary to work on promotion, but what measures can be taken to encourage people to come and work in the agri-food industry?

Should this aspect be included in programs tailored to the immigrant workforce, for example?

4:45 p.m.

Special Assistant to the National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada

Derek Johnstone

That's probably a good idea. On the immigration side, it's obviously important to evaluate what skills we're recruiting for when we allow newcomers to come to Canada. That's a key part.

I would just reiterate my earlier point. I don't accept the notion that all underemployed or unemployed Canadians and permanent residents and people who've taken themselves out of the labour market are aware of all these opportunities in the food processing sector. I don't buy it. There are a lot of people—certainly stakeholders from labour—who would probably agree with me.

It's reckless for us as an industry to accept the fact—like it's a fait accompli—that Canadians don't want to do this work, that they all know about it and that they're just not interested. I haven't seen any evidence, quite frankly, to support that in terms of a national survey. I look at our own membership, and it's something that UFCW's been trying to champion. We have lots of underemployed members who are working part time.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Johnstone.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC

Thank you.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Lehoux.

Mr. Blois, you have five minutes. Go ahead.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

I'll start with the folks from MNP. We have heard the narrative about access to capital. That's something we've heard throughout. Where do your members—and you mentioned you have about a thousand different businesses—get their capital right now for expansion generally?

4:45 p.m.

Partner, MNP LLP

Kelleen Tait

Capital for expansion would come significantly from traditional sources of financing, such as bank loans or government grants. Any grant programs are always of benefit, especially to new producers who are coming into the industry. Also, many will utilize their other businesses, operations or personal savings to put into this.

They're not looking for handouts here. They're just looking for some support to go with what they're doing already.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Interest rates are at about 0.25% right now through traditional channels and through the Bank of Canada. When you're advising your businesses, are you encouraging them to take advantage, perhaps, of this long-term ability to borrow at low interest rates?

4:45 p.m.

Partner, MNP LLP

Kelleen Tait

It is always a factor, of course, in determining the length of time the loan is needed. The current rates and opportunities to access that capital are all considered as well.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

You mentioned, obviously, strategic innovation funding and some of the—I don't want to say agri-invest—different agricultural programs that are around. Agri-innovate, I think, is what you mentioned.

Certainly, government has a role in terms of helping to support private sector business. However, in terms of tax credits, as Mr. Drouin mentioned, is it better that government put something out that all businesses can take advantage of? Of course, even with government programs, not everyone is necessarily a beneficiary. Would you recommend, perhaps, a wider swath so that businesses themselves can choose to take advantage of those programs, or is it a bit of both?

4:50 p.m.

Partner, MNP LLP

Kelleen Tait

You'll find a bit of both. Having programs where it's easy for our producers to know that those are applicable to them and that the funds are earmarked to ensure a safe and consistent food supply for Canadians will be important. Of course, they'll also have access to some of the more global programs that have been announced.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

One of the things that we've heard in other meetings is that sometimes there's almost a domestic plant, i.e., we have multinational companies and some of their subsidiaries exist in Canada, but they might not be their main operations. Has it been your finding through MNP that sometimes that's why the funding is not always available: because these are global companies that have multiple operations around the world, and Canada, for whatever reason, just might not be the targeted choice at this point in comparison to other global players?

4:50 p.m.

Partner, MNP LLP

Kelleen Tait

Glenn, do you want to address that question?

4:50 p.m.

National Leader, Food and Beverage Processing Practice, MNP LLP

Glenn Fraser

Yes.

We don't really represent a lot of multinational, large-scale food and beverage processing companies. When you look at our client base, it's predominantly Canadian-based and Canadian-founded companies. As Kelleen mentioned earlier, their struggle is just understanding the programs. Is it worth going through the process and the protocol to claim, and is there transparency? A lot of times people will go all the way through and not get the outcome, so that message gets passed on.

February 18th, 2021 / 4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

MNP is a big company. You, of course, are advising internationally with other jurisdictions. If there are other programs out there that you think, in your line of business, are very beneficial, I would appreciate it if you could submit them to the committee.

I want to go to Mr. Lemaire very quickly.

You talked about companies that can be successful, that control their production base and look not only at one segment but at the whole industry. I think it's a good point, and others have raised it. Do you see a role for government in that, or is that just private enterprise being innovative and connecting the dots within their industry? We have to walk the line between what the role of government is legitimately, which I think we.... I don't want to abdicate our responsibility, but is that really the role of private business?

4:50 p.m.

President, Canadian Produce Marketing Association

Ron Lemaire

That's a great question. The simple answer is that, yes, there's a role for government. It is creating the right economic environment to connect all of those businesses. I'll give you an example in the blur of the regulatory enforcement of how the business operates. We heard the comment about the role of the CFIA and other responsibilities. That gets into a different discussion compared with what this committee is looking at right now, but it is an influencing factor.

On top of that, looking at everything Ms. Tait and Mr. Fraser mentioned around the incentives, and looking at some of the tools that are necessary, especially around capital investment, is key here. If a company is going to look at how to leverage, especially during COVID right now and the risk.... There are two models. What is the short-term opportunity to address the recovery? We heard “build back better”. Yes, God love it, let's do it. However, the big key here is this: How do we look at the short-term gain, and then what is the long-term strategy?

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you.

Colleagues, we're done a little bit early with that round. If we do the full second round, it will take us considerably over.

I suggest that we give one question to every party.

4:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.