Agriculture Committee on April 20th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Mr. Hodson, at the bottom where it says “interpretation”, you just have to select the proper one. I don't know if you have that on your computer.

[Jonothan Hodson]

I select “English”, then, and it will interpret for me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Yes.

[Jonothan Hodson]

Okay. I just did that. My apologies.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Okay.

Should I try again in French or did you get the question?

[Jonothan Hodson]

Sure. If you would like to, go ahead.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

You mentioned that there's no other option but natural gas and propane for drying grain. Can you explain why those are the only forms of energy that can be used, and, if that's the case, is it due to a temporary lack of innovation?

[Jonothan Hodson]

My only option is propane at this point. I don't have a natural gas option. It's very limited where that option exists on farms. My only option is propane, which can be delivered to my operation.

It comes down strictly to economics. Mr. Chair mentioned his boiler. There are a lot of ideas on a small scale, but to get large enough to be economical on a modern grain farm, the cost of any technology is still prohibitive. The options are just cost prohibitive.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

My question is for Mr. Annau.

You said you'd also like to see the exemption expanded to include activities such as heating, livestock pens and irrigation. As my colleague Mr. Drouin said, that change may be beyond the scope of Bill C-206, but I nevertheless wanted to ask you whether greener options exist for heating and irrigation.

[Frank Annau]

Much as was actually just addressed by Mr. Hodson, there are currently a number of innovations under way to basically reduce emissions from the fuel we use, particularly for applications like irrigation.

At this point, in terms of making the innovations scalable and economical for application on farms, we aren't quite there yet. Obviously, this makes us appreciate injections of innovation funding [Technical difficulty—Editor] into these certain fields. At this point, the barrier to having these adopted on a wider scale is economics right off the bat.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mrs. Bessette and Mr. Annau.

Now it's Mr. Perron's term.

Go ahead for the next two minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Overbeek, I'd like you to continue with what you were telling Mr. Lehoux about biomass before you ran out of time. You ruled out agricultural residues in order to preserve your soils, which was definitely a good decision, but you mentioned forest biomass. Have you had a chance to explore that avenue?

[Christian Overbeek]

We're a group of farmers, and, as an organization, we considered the possibility of using forest biomass. You have to understand that any additional demand for forest biomass may result in a shortage. In addition, the main challenge in using that technology to dry grain is the very short period of time in the fall when that equipment is used to dry and condition our grain, which makes it non-cost-effective compared to a heating system that can operate 8 to 12 months a year for other types of crops and uses.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

We keep coming back to the same problem: the period of use, which undermines cost-effectiveness.

Mr. Hodson, in your presentation, you referred to crop rotation, which you do in order to preserve your soils and protect the environment, which would be jeopardized if you couldn't dry your grain any more. Please tell us more about that.

[Jonothan Hodson]

The way I was looking at it, it's like a negative consequence. One of the things we're cognizant of in agriculture in Canada is crop rotation and its benefits for our soil health, disease prevention and so on. On a personal level, on our farm, I am concerned that down the road, if this cost escalates in the way that it is being forecast and things are left as they are, I may lose the option of having one more crop in my rotation. I find that troubling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

You have 10 seconds left.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay.

If Bill C-206 doesn't pass, how will that prevent you from rotating your crops? You'll stop growing certain crops because they won't be cost-effective and will be used solely for rotation purposes. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Please be brief.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Yes. There are only three seconds left.

We were slowed down because of an interpretation problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Yes. I'll give you a little more time.

You have the floor.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You're very kind.

[Jonothan Hodson]

I will never stop trying to do crop rotation. It's just a matter of having to fill one to fill the void. I've done that for the crops I have now. Farmers will never stop innovating, but I would hope that we're allowed to do that and not be forced into having to make changes. That's what part of this is about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Hodson.

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor, for two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll go back to a comparison between Bill C-206 and what was announced in the budget yesterday. The Department of Finance is estimating $100 million in the first year, and then it goes on to say that returns in future years will be based on proceeds from the price of pollution. It says that the intention is to return a portion of the proceeds. I know policy like this doesn't just occur in a vacuum.

In the lead-up to the budget, did the government, specifically the Department of Finance, ever have any consultations with you?

This is to all of the witnesses. I'll start with the Grain Growers. Did it ever have any consultation with you on developing this policy?

Did it give you any idea as to what the portion of the proceeds would be?

[Jonothan Hodson]

I will pass this question on to Erin Gowriluk here.