Evidence of meeting #32 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I can allow Mr. Perron to go first. His hand came up. I'll listen to his point of view before I respond.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor, but I think that you raised your hand before I did.
I'll speak somewhat along the same lines. I appreciate the points made by my colleague from the NDP today, particularly with respect to the previous amendments.
Regarding the 10-year period, you know that, during the testimonies, I was one of the members who asked many questions about the possibility of establishing a time limit. I'm still wondering about this, because there might be a loophole. I had decided not to move an amendment regarding the duration. If we look at what happens 10 years from now, then gasoline, light fuel oil and prescribed fuels will still be exempt in 10 years as well.
I wonder whether the amendment could be worded in such a way that the whole clause would be reviewed in 10 years. Would that be in order? Since I wasn't sure that I could move something that would be in order, I decided not to do so. However, I'll still support this in the end.
Mr. MacGregor, I'm concerned that, 10 years from now, we'll end up moving backwards if we have other solutions for farm machinery, for example.
I'd like your opinion on this. I'll open the discussion.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I will address Mr. Steinley's comments first. He is very right. I don't have a crystal ball. Who knows where we will be in 10 years?
I guess, to respond directly to his point, the act currently allows for a prescribed type of fuel, so the executive branch of government already, within the parent act, has the tools to make regulations to prescribe the type of fuel. It is within the executive branch's power to rapidly adapt to changing circumstances, but hopefully by the year 2031 we will certainly be well on our way to using alternative forms of energy.
With respect to Mr. Perron's point, I was having some back and forth with the legislative drafters, and in fact, the first amendment they gave to me was regarding the consideration of having a review mechanism in place. Unfortunately it would have extended the length of the current bill by another page and a half. It looked overly complex, so I decided to do away with that possibility and go with a simple sunset clause, and that's what I arrived at with amendment NDP-1.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
May 11th, 2021 / 4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I will go on the record as saying I don't really have a perspective one way or another on Mr. MacGregor's amendment. When I look at the entire work that has been done on this bill, I think the intent and the spirit of what Mr. Lawrence was trying to do are laudable, as I've said in the past. I think it is flawed in the sense that it didn't include amendments around the types of activities and equipment that are in the definition of the Greenhouse Gas Pricing Pollution Act. That is part of the fatal flaw of this particular piece.
Would Mr. MacGregor have any comments on that broader...? I see where he's trying to go with the 10 years to try to find and strike a balance between technology getting caught up to where we're at and the idea that we want to continue to move on climate change. Does he recognize, and does he sit where I sit on some of the concerns regarding the definitions of farming activity and of machinery that were not really addressed and that, of course, can't be addressed because we're already at this point in the game, so to speak?
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I know there were some concerns raised about that during our committee hearing, but I guess Mr. Lawrence was pretty clear from his first meeting that he had gone over this with the legislative drafters and was quite satisfied, along with them, that the current wording of the bill would be interpreted in a way that would allow for natural gas and propane to be used as a farm fuel for a farm purpose in farming machinery. The part of the existing act, the parent act, that refers to the heating and cooling.... I think that's more broadly interpreted as sort of something to do with a greenhouse, heating a barn, and so on, and not really for a machine that you're hooking up to a grain silo to help draw everything in. I'm satisfied with that interpretation.
I think I addressed everything that Mr. Blois was talking about.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Specifically with regard to Mr. MacGregor's amendment, from the testimony that we heard, we can see that agriculture has a very strong track record of adopting technology and adopting environmental improvements whenever they are feasible. In that spirit and because we can't predict that timeline, I would really caution us against putting a fixed, hard date on something, because if that technology isn't there, what have we accomplished by that? I understand the motivation as being a spurring mechanism to drive that, but as testimony has shown, agriculture doesn't need that. Agriculture does that on its own.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Epp.
At this stage, I see no hands raised. I think we've had a good discussion, and we will take this to a vote on amendment NDP-1.
(Amendment agreed to)
With that we'll go through the remaining questions.
Shall clause 1 as amended carry?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Mr. Chair, just so I'm clear, we're voting on clause 1. Are we still voting on Mr. MacGregor's amendment—on accepting this—or on the overall contents? It's just so I'm clear. It wasn't clear to me.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Yes. You're voting on clause 1 as amended, I believe.
(Clause 1 as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Shall the title carry?
4:15 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
4:15 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Finally, shall the committee order a reprint of the bill as amended for the use of the House at report stage?
4:15 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
That takes care of that business.
With that, I thank you all.
Thank you, Mr. Lawrence, for your appearance at this committee for the several meetings that you were here.
Great job, everyone.
With that, we'll just log out and then come back in. I think you've all been sent a new Zoom link. We'll see you on the other side ASAP for business.
Thank you.
[Proceedings continue in camera]