Agriculture Committee on June 15th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Wiens and Mr. MacGregor.

We'll go to our second round now.

Go ahead, Mr. Steinley, for five minutes.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to the poultry producers and the Dairy Farmers of Canada for being here.

First I want to go on record that the Conservative Party believes it is not the farmer's job to make sure that people don't come on their property. They're doing a great job with the signage and ensuring that people know where property lines are. Sometimes activists don't listen to signs. I don't think it's the farmers' fault when people trespass on their property. I just want to make sure that people realize the Conservatives stand with those farmers.

I'm going to be very clear. I think some of my colleagues have danced around this, asking the same question and hoping they get a different answer.

I'll ask the dairy farmers first and then the poultry farmers: Do you believe that this bill will help alleviate some of the fears and stresses that are put on farmers because of these activist activities?

[David Wiens]

I think it will go a long way towards addressing some of those concerns. Right now, like I said earlier, we're extremely vulnerable. We feel like we have very, very little control about who comes onto the property and what they do.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Go ahead, Mr. Leblanc.

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

The members of Éleveurs de volailles du Québec share that view. They, too, have had people break onto their farms, despite signs indicating that access was restricted. I don't think stop signs at the entrance of a farm necessarily prevent anyone from trespassing.

[Pierre Lampron]

I want to make clear that Bill C‑205 is a very important step to give farmers long-term peace of mind. As was mentioned, this is long awaited. To feed people, we need healthy animals, and this bill helps us keep animals healthy.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

We very much appreciate the work you all do.

On the second question, one comment was that if this isn't a national framework, some provinces that don't have the same laws in place might be targeted by activists. I would like you to build on that comment. I think it's very salient right now, to the point that the federal government should show leadership on this file and have a national bill put in place.

I just want to hear comments. If this isn't done nationally, will some provinces be targeted that don't have the same laws?

[David Wiens]

I would expect that would happen. We become easy targets. If this is going to be a hodgepodge right across the country, organizations can easily look at what we have and then they'll approach....

Again, farmers can do nothing about it. To have a consistent framework across the country is absolutely going to bring a greater sense of security to farmers to enable them to do what they do best.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Leblanc.

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

I completely agree.

I think you just heard the answer: the legislation has to apply right across the country. It will provide a national framework, especially since our animal health and welfare laws are national laws enforced by our national office. For that reason, Canadian legislation is preferable.

That does not prevent a province from introducing complementary legislation afterwards, but Canada will have at least assumed its leadership role.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much.

Finally, I have one quick comment to make. A previous witness said there are many third party animal welfare auditors, like the SPCA and others, specifically industry auditors, that come on farms safely and check on animal welfare.

There is no hidden, behind the scenes production going on, on dairy farms or producer farms. There are already many audits being done by third parties to ensure animal safety.

Could you guys confirm that?

We heard it from a witness just before you guys came on. I want to make sure it is on the record that there are already third party auditors ensuring animal safety on farms across the country.

[David Wiens]

There are, absolutely. Through proAction, validation happens on an ongoing basis by independent auditors. The process has also been approved by the CFIA, so it's credible; it's real, and it's on a regular basis. If you can't certify through that, you won't be farming for very long.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Wiens.

We'll now go to Monsieur Drouin, for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses, whom we know well. I would also like to recognize my fellow member Mr. Barlow, the bill's sponsor. I agree with him. I think the majority of the members on this committee agree with the purpose of the bill.

Mr. Lampron, if I wanted to visit your farm, I would have to put on special overalls, wash my hands and so forth. Those are things I do when I visit farms in my riding.

Why are those measures necessary when strangers come onto a farm?

[Pierre Lampron]

It's a biosecurity protocol, to help keep contaminants off the farm. A farmer does not know where you've been before visiting the farm or what you might be bringing onto the farm unintentionally. Protocols are put in place for health reasons.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

All right.

Were those protocols put in place by the Dairy Farmers of Canada, or did they emerge from a partnership with governments?

[Pierre Lampron]

I'm going to let Mr. Weins answer. I don't dare talk about the proAction program when Mr. Weins is around.

The protocols were developed by farmers in conjunction with governments and other stakeholders, mainly veterinarians. We have a lot of veterinarians on our committees. The purpose of the protocols is to reduce the risk.

Farmers know a lot about that, but professionals help us prevent disease.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Leblanc, I have visited poultry farmers on several occasions. It's virtually the same protocols for all businesses, whether they're in Quebec, Ontario, or anywhere in Canada. The barrier is in place and I can't go any further. Even if I open the door, announce my presence and the farmer lets me in, the farmer requires me to wear the same equipment.

Are these protocols developed by the poultry farmers of Canada?

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

Yes.

At the national level, we have recommendations. In Quebec, we work with an industry committee that includes veterinarians. We make sure to implement the suggested biosecurity measures. We do everything in our power to ensure the biosecurity of farms. Our rules are rigorous.

In the past, we've seen cases of trespassing where people simply entered or forced their way in. Believe me, they didn't take the time to put on boots or overclothes before entering. A conscientious visitor who wants to visit the farm will follow the protocols. If not, the protocols aren't followed.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Breaking and entering is illegal in Canada. Our discussion on Bill C‑205 concerns how to address this issue and how to create tools to prevent this type of activity. That's important.

Have there been any discussions? Have you been contacted by animal welfare organizations, such as the Canadian Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, or SPCA, in Quebec, for example?

Is this type of contact being made? Is it more that they aren't talking to you, they don't want anything to do with you, they're against you, and to hell with it, they'll do their campaigns on social media? At some point, and it's unfortunate, a farmer will fall victim to this situation, whether or not their family is there. That's how things will go.

Has there been any contact?

[Pierre Lampron]

I spoke earlier about the code of practice being developed. I was involved in the implementation of the legislative framework in 2009 with the SPCA. There were people on both sides, but we were making concessions and we're still in contact.

I don't want to call on Mr. Wiens' again, but he's part of proAction. We're in contact with these people. The extremes aren't good and we do everything that we can. Our animals are our livelihood and we take care of them.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You have no desire to beat your animals or abandon them, since this will affect production.

[Pierre Lampron]

That's right. It's important to understand this.

That's why the legislation matters, as we said earlier. At some point, these people must be reasoned with. They have no right to do this. The legislation is in place to protect animals.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I think that my time is up.

Mr. Lampron, it was a pleasure to see you. I hope that you have a great summer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.