Evidence of meeting #35 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tyler McCann  Managing Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute
Raymond Orb  President, Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities
Gunter Jochum  President, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
Kathleen Sullivan  Chief Executive Officer, Food and Beverage Canada
Stephen Paul  Vice-President, Supply Chain Logistics, Ray-Mont Logistics
Jim Beusekom  President, Market Place Commodities Ltd.
Philippe Méla  Legislative Clerk

5:15 p.m.

President, Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities

Raymond Orb

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll try again, hoping that you can understand me.

On the question about 4R, I think it's something that's better understood in our province. Many of our farmers are already doing just that, because of the high cost of fertilizer. Many were not able to buy the fertilizer before the prices started to increase dramatically last spring.

I think we need to talk about the new technology, too, because as technology develops and we have better innovation, farmers most likely won't be able to save money using fertilizer. I think right now the whole point is that farmers broadly don't have that technology available. It's very expensive. To ask us farmers to take on more debt because of a federal government policy that tells us, on the one had, that we need to produce more food, and then we're told we need to reduce our emissions.... We're not sure how we can do that with the adaptation and the equipment that we have on our farms now. That's a concern we have.

Going back to Mr. Drouin's statement, I agree with what he has to say about that, but I think many farmers are really concerned about that. It has a bad effect as well. It creates an urban-rural split, and perhaps bad feelings between urban and rural people, because many farmers are being blamed for polluting, when agriculture is really only about 10% of the total greenhouse gases that are emitted in this entire country. We're not sure why the fingers are being pointed. Whatever we do, farmers will adapt and farmers will be able to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but I think we need more time and innovation to do that.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

One of the things I have access to is information from irrigation districts. The largest ones are in my riding. The Western Irrigation District says their operation costs have increased year over year at 53%. That's a huge increase in costs.

Are you finding similar cost increases in the organization that you work with?

5:20 p.m.

President, Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities

Raymond Orb

Absolutely. The costs for our producers have gone up dramatically as well.

Of course, the grain prices have, and if farmers are able to capitalize on that, if farmers do have good crops, it takes away the sting, perhaps, of the increase in prices.

Being able to get a crop seems to be a huge challenge. A large area of our province this year, and part of Alberta as well, was under a lot of drought and farmers didn't get a lot of rain, so they weren't able to grow the crops. High prices on the input side often raise lots of red flags for producers.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

You mentioned one other thing. The understanding is that farmers are price-takers. They can't pass on their increased costs. Everything that's above them, an increase in price, they have to absorb it.

You talked about rail. Rail is just the start. The challenge with rail.... In 2013 and 2014, CN didn't deliver one load of grain out of northern Alberta, for example. You have the port, where if it rains, no matter what the covering is, they don't go to work. Then you have all the boats in the harbour and people complaining about the boats in the harbour and the demurrage, because things aren't working smoothly.

Are there any comments you'd like to make on the whole supply chain, from your farm to when it's loaded on a boat and gone?

5:20 p.m.

President, Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities

Raymond Orb

I think since 2013, except for what happened last year in British Columbia, our grain shipments have been moving in a more effective manner, but of course the flooding last year in B.C. stopped a lot of the grain from going on a timely basis.

The federal government does pay attention to transport, and I think the Minister of Transport believes that grain should be an essential service, but I know there are logistical problems doing that, because of unions and people who have contracts and things like that. They need to live up to them.

I think we also have to look, perhaps, at the Port of Churchill in northwestern Manitoba. They are rejuvenating the rail line, and they've made lots of improvements to that port. There is federal funding going into that, to the federal government's credit. We need to look at that as well.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you, Mr. Orb.

Thank you, Mr. Shields.

We'll now go to Mr. Louis, who is tuning in virtually.

It's over to you.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses. We appreciate your being here.

Maybe I can start by directing my questions to Mr. McCann from the Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute.

You mentioned the need to continue working toward more production and a more resilient food system, and that your goal is to work with farmers so they can produce more with less. We're hearing that as a common theme today. That would help feed Canadians, and it would help feed the world. I think we can all agree that would be good for our farmers, while at the same time being good for our environment.

Can you share with this committee your “environmental sustainability initiative Spearheading Sustainable Solutions...which aims to advance policy solutions that support the [agriculture] sector's ongoing improvements to its sustainability”?

5:20 p.m.

Managing Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute

Tyler McCann

We have an ongoing research program, and we have this reality in agriculture that farmers have made significant improvements in Canada.

Canadian farmers were world leaders in developing and adopting no-till production. No-till production is probably the single greatest thing that Canadian farmers could have done for the environment. It's always important to recognize that farmers largely developed those technologies, those approaches, in Saskatchewan and across the Prairies. They adopted the technologies and practices on their own, because it made sense. Again, it was good for the soil, it was good for their business, and it has had a tremendous impact on our ability to store carbon in the soil.

What we think we need to do is ask how we can continue to do that. How can we continue to identify the practices that make sense for farmers to adopt and that are good for farmers, that are good for the environment and that produce significant co-benefits? That looks at things like soil health. It looks at what we know about variability. Why don't we develop a system that supports farmers when what works on Gunter's farm in Manitoba is not going to work on my farm in western Quebec? We need a more dynamic policy response that enables that to happen.

We have a number of projects under way that really look at how we recognize this reality and how we enable it to take off.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

I appreciate that answer. I think you touched on an important thing. Canada is just geographically so large that it will be difficult to paint with one brush and say this is what works. You mentioned a whole-of-government approach, which will be working together federally, provincially, territorially with the farmers themselves and maybe the tech sector as well.

Do you think it's possible for Canada to be a global leader in sustainable agriculture? If so, what steps do we need to take, and how can we share those best practices with each other, given the size of Canada?

5:25 p.m.

Managing Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute

Tyler McCann

I think we absolutely can. It's important to recognize that already today many of the crops we produce in Canada are some of the most efficient in the world. If you look at the carbon intensity of Canadian canola as a feedstock into renewable diesel markets, for example, we really are a leader. If the world only produced renewable diesel using Canadian canola, we would be better off for it.

It is also about recognizing that there's significant room for improvement. We are not a world leader when it comes to a regulatory environment for gene editing. We are not a world leader when it comes to a program suite that enables the development of new technologies. We are not a world leader when it comes to creating an environment that encourages private sector investment in R and D. We have significant room for improvement on a variety of these different things.

Again, our farmers do a really good job, but often the policy environment in Canada, where we tend to be very cautious and we tend to be very comfortable with the status quo, doesn't keep up with the work that they are doing to deliver sustainable and productive food.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

I'll ask you to elaborate on that. We have heard that before, about increasing private sector investment. Some countries are ahead of us on that.

What kinds of things can we do? We have the technology, and we can export that technology, but you're right that we do need investments, and it can't just come from the government itself. It has to come from the private sector. What kind of short-term things can we do to instill that confidence?

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Answer in 30 seconds, please.

5:25 p.m.

Managing Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute

Tyler McCann

For Canada to estimate the impact of the regulatory environment, we need better programs that are more targeted and can be leveraged to take those public dollars and invest them with private dollars. We need to do a better job of making sure that we can export this technology and that we can export our agriculture and our products around the world as well.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

I only have a few seconds. I just want to mention a comment from Mr. Orb.

You mentioned that you saw finger pointing from urban to rural regarding these emissions. I would say things are a bit different in my riding of Kitchener—Conestoga. It's not finger pointing but more handshakes and “thank you for feeding us”. For the record, it's possible to have that strong rural-urban relation.

Thank you.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Those are good lessons from Kitchener—Conestoga. Thank you, Mr. Louis.

Thank you, Mr. McCann and Mr. Orb.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor now for two and a half minutes.

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Orb, in your opening address you spoke about the need for newcomers to obtain their work permits in a timely manner. That leads me to talk about the issue of labour and foreign workers. As you know, there are currently major problems with respect to processing applications.

Do you have any particular recommendations for the government?

5:25 p.m.

President, Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities

Raymond Orb

Yes, and thank you for the question, Mr. Perron.

We have been working with Mr. Harrison, our immigration minister here in Saskatchewan. We know that there have been some issues with bringing in farm workers and with bringing in Ukrainian immigrants, who are the ones who may have lived on farms in Ukraine. We know that there are different restrictions for those people, especially in regard to testing and things like that. The minister has been able to work with the federal government to fast-track some of that, hopefully, but we haven't seen the direct results yet.

We know that one of the big problems we have in agriculture is getting farm workers. Of course, a lot of the Ukrainians who are coming into Canada have experience working on farms. Or they may need training. That's the other thing: We need to have more funding for training as well.

I mentioned that the truck driver shortages are not unique to Saskatchewan. That's happening across the country. We need to have more drivers. In some cases, those people need to get training to be able to get their licences here. Right now, the Canada-Saskatchewan job grant does not allow for training on farms for class 1A truck drivers. We're asking the federal government and the province to look into this to see if they can alleviate that.

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Thank you.

Specifically on the topic of foreign workers, would issuing visas for a longer period for workers who return each year, and automatically renewing their visas, be measures you would like to see?

5:30 p.m.

President, Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities

Raymond Orb

I think that would help. We know that during COVID temporary farm workers had issues in being able to be let in. The federal government did make some changes, but these people I'm referring to would have permanent residency in Canada. I think all those changes are worth looking at to fast-track that, for sure.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

We'll leave it at that.

Thank you, Mr. Orb.

Thank you very much, Mr. Perron

Mr. MacGregor, it's over to you now for two minutes and 50 seconds.

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. McCann, I'll turn my last question to you to wrap up this round.

I know that your institute's work reflects systems thinking. You research complex and interconnected food issues and you bring voices to the table.

I was just looking at the European Union. They've put in place a contingency plan following their experiences with the COVID-19 pandemic and all of the stresses that caused for their food system, their transport system and so on. In terms of here in Canada, you talked about the vulnerabilities we have in our various systems, and you also talked about climate change.

The other hat I wear in the House of Commons is a public safety one, and that also covers emergency preparedness. In looking at what other jurisdictions are doing, notably the European Union, what role do you think our federal government can have, whether it's the Department of Emergency Preparedness or Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, in maybe putting in place our own contingency plan? This is a problem that's bigger than what any one region or any one province can handle. Do you have any thoughts on that particular aspect?

5:30 p.m.

Managing Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute

Tyler McCann

Again, I think you're going back to the principle of the whole-of-government approach, which is important in this case.

I think the community around Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, the federal department, came together pretty quickly. They tried to be responsive and they tried to address the issues that arose during COVID-19, but this really laid bare that we didn't have a very good plan. A lot of this was being done on the fly as we tried to manage and deal with the consequences of this.

Our hope is that there are lessons learned coming out of that experience that will enable us to have better systems in place to plan for the future. We saw that at the local level in B.C., where, again, systems had to be built in order to address the impacts of the flood.

Again, we see a level of creativity. We saw regulatory issues that we hadn't been able to resolve for a long time resolved by officials. I think they showed that we can do good things in Canada, that we do have the ability, but it would be nice to see more proactive planning—not just planning inside government, but planning between government and the industry and rest of the value chain—so that we can all come together and have systems that are in place when needed.

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Thank you, Mr. McCann.

On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank all of our witnesses today for joining us on our panel and for sharing their knowledge and perspective as part of our study, with their collective work in agriculture. Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we will be transitioning to panel two in about two or three minutes. We have a bit of committee business to discuss at the end. We might keep it a bit truncated, but please don't go far.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

I call the meeting back to order.

Colleagues, thank you so much. We're going to get back to it.

We're really fortunate to have three witnesses here.

Mr. Beusekom is having some issues on the technical side. He was unable to do his test. We will see if we're able to get him in, but I want to proceed with the two witnesses we have before us.

We have Kathleen Sullivan, the chief executive officer of Food and Beverage Canada, who is joining us in the room. Welcome back, Ms. Sullivan. I understand it's your first time back to the committee room in two or three years.

On the screen, from Ray-Mont Logistics, we have Stephen Paul, who serves as the vice-president of supply chain logistics. Welcome, Mr. Paul.

As I said, we might have Mr. Beusekom if we're able to figure out the technical elements.

I'm going to start with opening remarks.

Ms. Sullivan, you have up to five minutes. I'll pass the floor over to you.