Agriculture Committee on Nov. 30th, 2022

[Yves Ruel]

The unfortunate situation that Ukraine is experiencing raises many questions for us regarding the sanitary infrastructure in place. As Mr. Klompmaker said, it's very stringent when the Canadian Food Inspection Agency takes on this role. In view of the unfortunate situation in Ukraine, we can be pretty sure that the infrastructure in place there isn't working as it usually does.

To date, the agency has told us that services are operating as usual in Ukraine. The last audit dates back to 2019, and we believe everything is still in place. However, the situation on the ground must have changed considerably. I've never been there, but, from what we can see, the situation seems so different that it's hard to believe the entire animal welfare and food safety audit system is operating as well as it did in 2019.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You say the last update was in 2019, but it seems to me there was talk of major outbreaks of avian flu last year, wasn't there?

[Yves Ruel]

I mentioned 2019 because that was the year the Canadian Food Inspection Agency audited the Ukrainian system.

There have been a lot of AI cases in Europe in the past year and in Canada since January.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

So this is a problem that arose long after the last inspection. That's what you see if you do the calculation.

The officials from Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada said on Monday that they didn't anticipate considerable export volumes.

Have you heard if any Canadian importers are interested in importing products from Ukraine?

[Michael Laliberté]

We've seen that two importers are pressing the government, especially the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, to issue export certificates. That suggests to us that they want to import chicken from Ukraine.

We have no data indicating that it would be a small volume. As noted earlier, nothing's being imported right now, given the current prohibition, but large volumes will be able to enter Canada once the permits are issued.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Yes, government representatives said they'd be prepared to amend the order in question. Consequently, the exemption granted for products subject to supply management—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I apologize for interrupting, Mr. Savard-Tremblay, but your time is up.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

All right. I'll continue later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Collins, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today and for providing testimony.

My first questions are going to be for our witnesses from the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. I first want to thank you, both for the work you're doing to advocate for people in Ukraine and those who are coming to Canada, and for the support you give to the Ukrainian communities across Canada. I know our local chapter does a lot of work in my riding, so thank you.

I'm sure you've heard a lot of concern around this table about safety and about avian influenza.

I know the Ukrainian Canadian Congress was advocating for modernizing the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement just before the unjustified and atrocious war that Russia launched on Ukraine. We know that we've been lifting tariffs on Ukrainian products. Can you talk about some of the others in the agricultural sector that have been lifted or that you'd like to see lifted?

[Orest Zakydalsky, Senior Policy Advisor, Ukrainian Canadian Congress]

Our position on Canadian tariffs on Ukrainian goods is that for the time that Ukraine is suffering under a genocidal war, we believe that it is helpful to Ukraine for Canada to lift those tariffs and allow for freer imports of Ukrainian goods.

In terms of the issue we're talking about today, chicken, we're not food inspection experts. I will note, however, that the European Union is importing Ukrainian chicken and has similarly lifted tariffs on it. If the implication by our friends here is that the Europeans are lax in their safety standards, then I would invite the committee to ask the European Union representatives to come here to talk about their safety standards.

In terms of tariffs, I think a blanket lifting by Canada of tariffs on Ukrainian goods is something that we support and partly why we strongly support this order.

Thank you.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks.

Do you have a sense of where in Ukraine Canada would be getting increased volumes of chicken and eggs from? It's okay if you don't have the answers; some of these were going to be directed to the deputy minister.

[Orest Zakydalsky]

Do you mean geographically?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Yes.

[Orest Zakydalsky]

I don't have information about where exactly these products would be coming from. I think when you hear from the deputy minister, he'll be able to answer those questions.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Absolutely. Thanks so much.

I will now turn to Mr. Klompmaker.

The government representatives talked about the short-term impact of the remission order, that it's only until June 9, 2023. In your opinion, what is the length of the potential impact of this?

[Tim Klompmaker]

Given the fact that the majority of the product that would come in would probably be frozen, it has a potential to sit in freezers for a year. So, if we had product coming in until June, it could, potentially, have impacts on us until June 2024. It's not just within the time frame of now to June 2023.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

You mentioned in your opening statement, but also in responses to questions, not having been consulted by government. Is it normal that you wouldn't be consulted by government? Do you know who was consulted from the industry?

[Yves Ruel]

We don't know who was consulted or whether anybody was consulted, but it came as a surprise to us.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Just for my knowledge, can you share a little bit of background in terms of how much of the proceeds from sales of products to consumers goes to the people producing it and how much goes to importers?

[Yves Ruel]

It's a difficult question, because, first, we often talk about just chicken, but it depends on every cut. They sell some as whole birds but they sell some as wings, breasts or boneless breasts. There's more value in and more work done on a boneless breast, for example. Then they also sell other products that will be further processed, like chicken meals.

It's very tough to answer that just like that, because it will be specific for each cut. It also depends on the different markets. I think I would misguide you if I provided a firm answer.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks so much.

We've been hearing from the witnesses from the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. Given that the EU is importing chicken, why do you think they've decided to make that decision, given the concerns you've raised here today about avian influenza, and especially about the lack of reporting that potentially might be happening?

[Yves Ruel]

There has been a long-established relationship. I don't know since when, but there's been a lot of trade between Ukraine and the EU in various products and in chicken as well, so this is not new. There was ongoing trade with the EU before the war and they decided to maintain it. I don't know if there are more relationships already established.

In our case, we never imported any chicken. The only information we have—well, I say “we”, but it's the CFIA—dates from an audit from 2019.

The U.S. also decided at the same time not to allow any importation from Ukraine until after the war. They will reassess after the war. Many other countries have not opened the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Ruel.

Thank you, Ms. Collins.

Ms. Rood, you now have up to five minutes.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for appearing today.

I'm going to ask, Mr. Ruel, if you can continue on the point that you were making there because, as you've just mentioned, our number one trading partner is not allowing importation of chicken from Ukraine at this point. Can you elaborate on how that impacts the industry, why the U.S. made that decision and perhaps why Canada should have looked at the U.S. when making their decision as well?