Evidence of meeting #6 for Bill C-11 (41st Parliament, 1st Session) in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was music.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
Do you find it somewhat frustrating that you're being told you're making too much money, and that you should be taxed to death, and that your success is somehow a blight on--
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Well, it certainly is. It's called the statute of actually being able to listen. Nobody said that. He's making it up.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Glenn Thibeault
Thank you very much. That's debate.
We're moving on to Mr. Calandra.
Please follow through with your question.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
I would congratulate you for being a successful Canadian company that actually makes money and employs hundreds of thousands of people across this country, as opposed to suggesting that because you are a successful company that makes a lot of money and employs a lot people, somehow you are a villain in this.
Mr. Gray, is CHUM opposed to paying artists for their works—yes or no?
10:15 a.m.
Vice-President and General Manager, CTV2 and Radio Ottawa, CHUM Radio
No, they are not at all. As I said earlier, we are paying $8.1 million in performance royalties and an additional $7.3 million in Canadian content development funds.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
After this legislation, if it's passed and has the approval of Parliament, you're still prepared to pay royalties to artists?
10:15 a.m.
Vice-President and General Manager, CTV2 and Radio Ottawa, CHUM Radio
Absolutely.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
Ms. Woods, briefly, some people talked about “notice and take-down”. Under a “notice and take-down” regime, who becomes the police, as such, of the Internet?
10:15 a.m.
Counsel, Regulatory Law, Bell, CHUM Radio
It certainly puts the ISPs in that role, but the problem is that notice and take-down isn't effective against peer-to-peer file-sharing. We want to use notice-and-notice to target individuals and to pass along messages. Even if the wrong individuals are getting the messages, we still benefit, because everybody's learning.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
Mr. Gray, my riding's just north of Toronto. I'm in the catchment area of 1050 CHUM. It went from a music station to an all-sports station. How much in royalties do you pay artists on 1050 CHUM now?
10:15 a.m.
Vice-President and General Manager, CTV2 and Radio Ottawa, CHUM Radio
I can't answer that specifically. I can get back to you on that.
10:15 a.m.
Counsel, Regulatory Law, Bell, CHUM Radio
I can add in to that, though, that it would be very little if we're not playing music.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
Okay.
The reality is that as your markets change, as you become less profitable, in order to stay on the air, in order to make that licence effective and not put people out of work, you need to provide a product people will actually listen to. Of course a lot of the AM dial has turned to talk radio. So the reality is, Mr. McCarty, that you need them as much as they need you.
What type of tax are you talking about levying on every single thing that we use? If you want to call it a levy, call it a levy, but the reality is that consumers will be paying more whether you call it a levy or a tax. What type of levy do you feel is needed to stop piracy?
My friends in the Liberal Party think that you don't need technical protection measures and you do not need levies, and the artists will still be protected.
10:15 a.m.
President, ole
As I said in my remarks, I'd rather not see a levy; I'd rather see a free marketplace where the products, services, and companies I was referring to were liable for the infringement, and then we could make a deal.
There was a fantastic example of a free-market equivalent of a levy on the Microsoft Zune, an ill-fated product, unfortunately, unrelated to this. It was their version of the iPod.
Can I finish?
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
No. What type of levy are you talking about? You're not giving me--
10:20 a.m.
President, ole
I'm talking about a commercially negotiated royalty. That's what I'm talking about.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
So you're not talking about putting levies. You don't think putting levies on these devices is a good way.
10:20 a.m.
President, ole
I want to get a royalty on that device from the manufacturer.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative