Evidence of meeting #3 for Bill C-18 (41st Parliament, 1st Session) in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Allen Oberg  Chair, Canadian Wheat Board
Ian McCreary  Former Director and Farmer, Canadian Wheat Board
Kenneth A. Rosaasen  Professor, University of Saskatchewan
Stewart Wells  Director, District 3, Canadian Wheat Board
Henry Vos  Former Director, Canadian Wheat Board
Ron Bonnett  President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
Jeff Nielsen  Former Director, Canadian Wheat Board
John Knubley  Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Greg Meredith  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food

6:50 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Wheat Board

Allen Oberg

I don't know where you get your numbers from, but those are the costs.

We've also spent, or will spend, some limited money on a legal case.

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

How much are you budgeting?

6:50 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

6:50 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Wheat Board

Allen Oberg

We won't know that until that case is complete.

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

See we do have one—

6:50 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Wheat Board

Allen Oberg

My point is this—

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Mr. Oberg, and Mr. Anderson, I have to recognize a point of order. I have to follow the rules. We have rules for a reason.

Mr. Martin has interrupted the proceedings with a point of order.

Mr. Martin.

6:50 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I'd like to bring the parliamentary secretary back to earth, in terms of relevancy.

Yesterday, Mr. Chair, you did in fact intervene a number of times, saying that some lines of questioning went beyond studying the technical details of the bill. The internal operations of the board of directors of the Canadian Wheat Board are a long way from studying any clause, or chapter, or verse of the bill at hand.

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Can I respond, Mr. Chair?

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Thank you, Mr. Martin.

I did allow you to respond to a point of order that was raised yesterday. Would you like to respond to that, Mr. Anderson?

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Absolutely.

I want to respond because this is farmers' money, not the Canadian Wheat Board's money. Mr. Oberg and I absolutely agree on one thing: He said he's always been of the opinion that farmers should decide, which is exactly the position I've taken for years. That's the position we take tonight. The individual farmers should be able to make their choices. We just want to know how much of their money the board has budgeted. We know they may or probably will go over that amount, but do they not have a number? I'd just like to know that number.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

I've allowed a lot of latitude on questions in the previous meetings. I'm going to allow the questioning to continue to go on as long as—

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

May I speak to that point of order?

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Go ahead, Mr. Valeriote.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

I absolutely agree with Mr. Martin. Knowing about an amount of money that's being paid to protect an existing board has nothing at all to do with the technical aspects of the new legislation—nothing at all—Mr. Chair. And I'm surprised this witness is being required to answer a non-technical question.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Given the fact the legislation does propose to significantly restructure the operation and mandate of the Wheat Board, this question, I think, may be on the fringes of what is germane to that mandate. As such, the witness is free to answer the question if he chooses to.

Mr. Oberg, to the question, please.

6:55 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Wheat Board

Allen Oberg

If this government had agreed to hold a plebiscite amongst farmers, farmers' dollars could have been saved—

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Order, please, colleagues.

6:55 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Wheat Board

Allen Oberg

—and if this legislation proceeds, taxpayers' dollars are going to be at risk here as well.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Mr. Wells, I believe you wanted to address this as well.

6:55 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Wheat Board

Allen Oberg

And it's hundreds of millions of dollars, by the way.

6:55 p.m.

Stewart Wells Director, District 3, Canadian Wheat Board

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to address one of the points that Mr. Anderson just raised, when he was again making a false comparison between spot prices and pool prices.

This is a quote from the U.S. Wheat Associates from May of this year, where they said:

...an open market could initially mean more Canadian wheat moving to parts of the United States as Canadian farmers seek higher returns. However, the huge price incentive that currently drives that desire would dissipate very quickly.

So the U.S. Wheat Associates are saying that whatever spot price differential there might be, isn't going to be there when this border opens.

Now, sooner or later, Mr. Anderson and everybody else is going to understand that you can't produce freedom by suppressing democracy. The government has had six years to hold these sorts of meetings, to design a plan, and have discussions to create a climate in which there could be some useful and productive discussions in the countryside. Because the government chose not to do that, we're in a situation where democracy is being suppressed. And it has been suppressed by Mr. Anderson, by the various Ministers of Agriculture, ever since 2006, and this is a continuation of that process.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Be brief, Mr. McCreary, as Mr. Anderson's time has expired.

6:55 p.m.

Former Director and Farmer, Canadian Wheat Board

Ian McCreary

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have a comment that may be helpful for members' understanding of the dynamic at play.

The question that was asked whether farmers could have had a choice? I'm a commercial operator. Frankly, I have no interest in this government grain marketing organization; I have no interest in any subsequent organization. My interest was in the single desk. Ultimately, I expect my elected directors to do what they can to defend that $400 million to $600 million. Relative to the value the government is talking about taking out of the till, it's a small cost. They have a fiduciary obligation to me, the shareholder, on that.

So it's important to note as if freedom is being created, but that the freedom to have the single desk is being taken away.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Thank you.

Ms. Ashton, five minutes, please.