Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on Feb. 8th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Thank you, Minister.

I'm sorry, we'll have to cut it off there.

Mr. Scarpaleggia, you have five minutes.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to imply that you have Al Gore's support.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I don't suggest that.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

In question period today in the House you suggested it.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I gave a quote that he made, saying he was pleased to see what was going on in Canada.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I also suggest that maybe you could create a second little blue graph showing the Conservative government's interest in the environment on one axis and the public opinion polls showing Canadians' interest in the environment on the other. You'd find that your interest lags behind Canadians' interest.

You'd also see a change with the election of Stéphane Dion as the Liberal leader.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I can see Stéphane Dion's election to the House of Commons right there.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

That's what I see. Oh, and he joined the cabinet at the same time, by the way.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

You quoted David Boyd at length in your presentation, so I assume you've read his testimony. I'd like your comments on three quotes from that testimony.

Number one is:

I want to mention the current government's proposal to use intensity-based targets. Intensity-based targets are inherently a fraudulent approach to climate change. They simply endorse and entrench the status quo, as business is consistently improving the efficiency with which they produce goods and services.

The second quote is:

When I read through Bill C-30, I see precious little in terms of new tools for addressing climate change. I'm left scratching my head about what it actually adds to the Canadian Environmental Protection Act

The third quote is:

The proposed clean air provisions, creating a new part 5.1 of CEPA dealing with air pollutants and greenhouse gases, by and large, simply duplicate the existing provisions of part 5. This not only wastes reams of paper, but in my opinion could pose a threat to the constitutional underpinnings of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act.

Would you like to comment on those?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Sure. I think there's a fair debate on intensity-based targets for the short term.

Economic growth is something that's very important to this government and I think to Canadians. It pertains to families and their capacity to provide for themselves.

You can quote things; I can quote things too. I mean, I can quote one person saying, well—

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

We're quoting the same person here.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

No, I'll quote another person: “Well, 'intensity-based' isn't bad, in and of itself—it's better to be doing more with less energy”. That was Mr. Godfrey, sitting there one over from you.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

But I assume you quoted Mr. Boyd extensively in your presentation because you give credibility to his views. Or were you quoting selectively?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think he has a lot of interesting things to say.

Because I agree with him, I can quote Mr. Godfrey again, if you like, talking about how intensity-based targets are good.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

My next question has to do with your view, which you've expressed consistently, that we have to work in a non-partisan manner to solve this problem. Will you accept Bill C-30 in whatever form it takes when it comes out of this committee after amendment?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I always like to see something before I agree with it or not.

Will you? If we can get this bill out of committee, will you commit the Senate to passing it quickly?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I'm not in the Senate.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Oh, well, I'm not on this committee.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

You're the environment minister.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Could we make a deal? If we get a bill out of committee, will you get the House and the Senate to pass it very quickly?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I can't. I have no say in the Senate. But you have a minister in the Senate.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

They don't come to your caucus? The majority of members in the Senate sit in caucus with you.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Let's just get to the content.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Your content.