Evidence of meeting #15 for Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was music.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Graham Henderson  President, Canadian Recording Industry Association
Maïa Davies  As an Individual
John-Paul Ellson  Chair, Canadian Council of Music Industry Associations
Grant Dexter  President, MapleMusic
Loreena McKennitt  President, Quinlan Road Limited
Solange Drouin  Vice-President and Executive Director, Public Affairs, Association québécoise de l'industrie du disque, du spectacle et de la vidéo (ADISQ)
Luc Fortin  President, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
Gilles Valiquette  Director, Board of Directors, Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada
Paul Spurgeon  Vice-President, Legal Services and General Counsel, Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada
Victor Davies  Director, Board of Directors, Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada
Jim Vallance  Vice-President, Songwriters Association of Canada
Greg Johnston  Treasurer, Songwriters Association of Canada
Éric Lefebvre  Secretary-Treasurer, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair (Mr. Gordon Brown (Leeds—Grenville, CPC)) Conservative Gord Brown

Good morning, everyone. We're going to call to order this fifteenth meeting of the special Legislative Committee on Bill C-32.

Because of the votes today, we have a little bit of a change in plan. In terms of our first panel here, they understand that they're going to have a total of 15 minutes. We will then follow that up with one round of seven minutes each. In the second one, there will be five minutes for each of the groups, plus one seven-minute round.

We'll do our best to try to get this done by one o'clock. That said, I understand the room is available. With unanimous consent we might have a few minutes extra.

Mr. Del Mastro.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

Mr. Chairman, why don't we simply add...?

We've lost 24 minutes of the committee. We have some very important witnesses on this panel and the next panel. They've taken time out of their schedule to be here.

I think it's reasonable for this committee to suggest that we'll sit until 1:24 p.m. and at least provide the two hours that were originally scheduled.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Are you moving that?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

I'd like to move that motion.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Is there discussion?

Madame Lavallée.

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

I am not against the idea of sitting until 1:24 p.m., but since the first and second groups are both quite large—as you yourself pointed out—if, at the end, they feel as though they did not have enough of an opportunity to express their views, we may want to invite them back to give us additional details about their position.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Mr. Rodriguez.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, I cannot stay past 1:00 p.m., because I have another meeting at that time.

Furthermore, since there are a lot of very important witnesses appearing today, both in the first and second hours of the meetings, I would like the opportunity to have them back, if they or we decide it's necessary.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Thank you very much.

We'll move to start....

Mr. Del Mastro, quickly.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

Obviously there would be no votes or motions. If you have to leave at one o'clock, you leave at one o'clock.

On this whole notion that we're just going to keep bringing people back, I mean, when are we going to get to consideration of the bill? I'd like to get through the witness list and get to consideration of the bill someday. I think the witnesses would like to see us get to consideration of the bill someday.

I mean, to suggest that we'll just keep bringing witnesses back because everybody has such a busy schedule that they can't possibly fit it in--it's getting a little outrageous, Mr. Chairman. Let's just sit until 1:25. Call the vote on the motion.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

I will call the vote on the motion.

All in favour to extend by 24 minutes?

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

[Inaudible--Editor]...on the record.

I understand my colleague's frustration. I'm certainly willing to meet on this. My problem is that I've committed to a meeting, and we have question period. If they want to meet at any time to talk about improving the process at committee, I've said all along that I'm open to meeting.

I can't do it. We weren't expecting this. I'm sorry.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Okay.

So there are five in favour.

Those opposed to extending by 24 minutes?

(Motion negatived)

Okay. We'll go until one o'clock.

Let's get this meeting under way....

Mr. Garneau.

March 1st, 2011 / 11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC

Mr. Chair, I just want to make a comment in reply to Mr. Del Mastro, who's talking about how we're sort of going on and on.

I want to say for the record that we in the Liberal Party have spoken to Mr. Moore, who of course is the heritage minister, and indicated to him that we are ready to discuss the possibility of speeding things up on the condition that the Conservative Party removes the ad in place at the moment that talks about an iPod tax.

If they're ready to take that out of their broadcasting to show how serious they are, then we're prepared to discuss things more seriously about speeding up the process.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Thank you very much.

I'm going to move to our witnesses....

Mr. Del Mastro, quickly.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

I would just point out to Mr. Garneau that there are two new ads that we're now running. He can check them out on conservative.ca; both are excellent.

11:25 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Thank you very much.

We will start with Mr. Graham Henderson....

Is this a point of order, Mr. Rodriguez?

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Yes, this is just a last point of order regarding Mr. Del Mastro's comments.

The fact is that there are too many witnesses today. I want that to be noted.

You know that, Mr. Chair; no more than three.

That is why some of them should have the chance to come back.

That's all.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Henderson.

11:25 a.m.

Graham Henderson President, Canadian Recording Industry Association

In the interest of speed, Mr. Chair, I was going to make some general introductory remarks, but I think there are people here who are more important to be heard from. I'll let us start right off with Maïa.

You all have our biographies, so we'll skip those. They're in French and English, and I believe they've been circulated.

Maïa.

11:25 a.m.

Maïa Davies As an Individual

Hello. Bonjour. I'm speaking today as a Canadian songwriter and recording artist.

The music industry as it existed 15 years ago in my experience is dead. The Internet has been an obvious game-changer. We have gained amazing things from this invention, yet business and government seem to have failed to keep up with the pace of the Internet revolution. The music industry is crumbling under the weight of illegal downloading. Those who still peddle the pros of BitTorrent sites and the like have fallen behind on the narrative of those in the know. And those in the know are people like me, who are directly and painfully affected by the velocity of events.

I am a songwriter and musician who has poured endless energy, sweat, and passion into my life's work. Our band released our first record on a major label in Canada this past year. When Shania Twain released her first album, as an example, she sold about 50,000 copies, which is an average yet modest sales figure for an emerging artist backed by good marketing, advertising, and distribution support in a healthy market. That was then. Today my band has this same support. We are in the middle of a tour, playing to sold-out, 400-seat rooms, yet sales of our CDs total less than 5,000 copies.

Two weeks after its release, our album was available on every BitTorrent and downloading site, and was ripped for free countless times. Our mechanical royalties earned to date from record sales have amounted to just over $4,000, and that's split among four members. Added to touring revenue for in excess of 150 shows played this year, and excess revenue from being a musician, my personal yearly income will still be less than $15,000. Yet I work an average of at least 40 or 50 hours each week.

Let me tell you, I'm not alone. The list of famous Canadian musicians and songwriters--my friends, my peers--whose work is known and cherished by fans but who can no longer make a living from their life's passion will come as a shock to most people in our country. Illegal downloading has stripped us of our main source of income, and therefore our livelihood.

In a free market economy, consumers can choose whether or not to purchase a product, but they do not have the right to take it without permission. That's why I see downloading as nothing less than theft, and we need laws to protect our rights as workers.

We have a wonderful national musical heritage, one blessed with the likes of Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, and Bruce Cockburn, to name a few. Our musicians, our songwriters, and artists of all genres make up a large part of the Canadian brand. Taking the example of Arcade Fire, my fellow Montrealers who won big at this year's Grammy awards, music forms a large part of our Canadian identity abroad. This identity is built in large part on the work of these artists. These artists will reward all of us if given the opportunity. At the very least, I believe, they deserve fair treatment under the law.

Thank you.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Thank you.

We'll go to John-Paul Ellson.

11:30 a.m.

John-Paul Ellson Chair, Canadian Council of Music Industry Associations

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am here as the chair of the Canadian Council of Music Industry Associations. I think a little explanation about what those are may be in order.

Quebec does not have an MIA . In Ontario, there is one in northern Ontario but not in southern Ontario. There are 10 MIAs across the country in every province plus the Yukon. The Northwest Territories is in the midst of forming one.

An MIA is a provincially incorporated non-profit corporation funded almost entirely by the respective provincial government. It's their way of putting money into the music industry. As non-profits, our role is not to make money, so to speak, but rather what we do most is provide professional development opportunities for our members.

On the question of members, we have at any one time about 5,000 registered members. But that number is actually much higher, because most of us allow band memberships where one person in the band can buy a membership and all four or five members can actually access our services.

We do professional development. Some of us provide pro bono legal services. We do a lot of representations to our provincial governments for advocacy. In that sense we are the representative of the average person on the street who just wants to do an album for the first time. Once we help them develop to a certain point, other groups sort of take on the higher development of their careers.

On the act itself, I'm here to say, contrary to what some people may have told you in the past, that it does have a tremendous effect on the street, from coast to coast to coast, and here's why. I think you can look at the current strategic plan for my organization, which is Saskatchewan Music. We had a very lofty goal this year in our strategic plan, and that was to bring our artists in Saskatchewan from their average annual income of $8,000 up to the poverty line. That's our strategic long-term goal, and we don't know if we can make it. So every decision on this bill affects the person on the street.

We have specific positions on certain provisions, but in the interest of time, they are in my written submissions.

Thank you very much.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Thank you.

We'll move to Grant Dexter, from MapleMusic Inc.