Canada-China Relations Committee on May 31st, 2021

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Yes.

[Kyle Matthews]

I'm not studying the Chinese Canadian media, but the only thing that you can see is that it creates a gulf in how the Chinese Canadian community might see reality and how everyone else would. That is also not good for social cohesion where you might have more polarization, so we have to be very careful about that.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I asked you that because there are some legislators who are proposing Canadian governments ban not just CGTN, a mouthpiece like that, but also WeChat.

[Kyle Matthews]

There's a wider discussion about reciprocity that social media platforms or media is not open in China and that as open societies, we're being exploited. There are those debates going on. I don't know where I stand on that. I think—

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

That's fine. Thank you.

Ms. Wong, in the remaining 15 seconds, there's foreign influence and infiltration, and there's another section there about elite capture, etc. They are not limited to Chinese diaspora or ethnic Han Chinese only. Is that correct? In other words, it's colour-blind. They will welcome any infiltration. Am I correct?

[Cherie Wong]

The wine and dine happens with Canadian and Chinese communities alike.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chiu.

Mr. Dubourg, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, Ms. Wong and Mr. Matthews. Thank you for being with us tonight and for contributing to our committee's work.

Mr. Matthews, you spoke about the incident where you had invited the president of the World Uyghur Congress and the consulate interfered.

Since that interference, have you experienced any other types of intimidation from Chinese nationals or leaders?

[Kyle Matthews]

No, we haven't.

After that event, a La Presse reporter was sent to interview the consul general. He really kowtowed to him. He did something truly ridiculous and it was picked up by the French- and English-language media across Canada.

We were allowed to proceed, and we invited Dolkun Isa to our institute again.

However, we started to have problems with people connected to extreme left Marxist-Leninist groups. I can't say if an alliance exists, but a lot of people criticize us online. When we talk about the Uyghurs, we are heavily criticized. When we get that, we suffer the psychological consequences. However, we haven't experienced the same pressure from the consul general.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I assume you are aware of the threats that Ms. Wong and other witnesses received.

You have often spoken of a coordinated response to impose sanctions on China and to take action against it. In particular, you have talked about sanctions related to hosting the 2022 Winter Olympics.

Keeping in mind the situation of Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig, who are still being arbitrarily detained, do you think that would carry much weight or significance?

[Kyle Matthews]

On the one hand, I am against genocide and I support the Uyghurs. On the other, I support the two Michaels. They are two separate things, but I understand why the Canadian government is really in a tight spot right now. They want to protect our two Canadians.

If we send athletes to the Beijing Olympics, it sends a horrible message. How can we live with what is happening in Hong Kong and the Uyghurs' situation?

We know that the Beijing government is seeking glory on the international stage. Each time people criticize them, as Canadian and British members of Parliament have done, they get very angry. They are interested in what people think of them. I agree with Irwin Cotler and his team that the Olympics should be boycotted.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.

So they are very attentive to gestures we make here.

I won't have time to ask Ms. Wong a question, but I would like to ask you one last brief question, Mr. Matthews.

You talk a lot about China's digital authoritarianism. Earlier, you alluded to the company Huawei and the 5G network.

Are any other Chinese companies in Canada engaging in inappropriate data gathering practices that we should be concerned about?

[Kyle Matthews]

In my opinion, the Huawei company is the most concerning, because it will be able to take all the data on our telephones and we will no longer have our privacy. There's also the company Tencent, which is looking to expand its business. The United Nations had to exclude it from its 75th anniversary, because the company is involved in persecuting Uyghurs.

In addition, a lot of people work for new artificial intelligence companies setting up shop in Canada, in Montreal and in Quebec, among other places. We really need to keep an eye on that.

I believe Huawei is the most dangerous company right now, but there are many others.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dubourg.

Ms. Normandin, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

The average person may not be aware of the Uyghur genocide issue and all the human rights stuff going on. If I tell my family at Christmas, they won't necessarily know about it.

Due to social media, China's tentacles will be spreading further and further, and its ability to act swiftly has probably improved since the 90s. This may affect more and more issues. Consider scientific freedom and environmental issues, for example. China remains quite a big polluter. It may want to change the international discourse. I'd like to get your perspective on that.

Do you feel the average person knows enough about everything going on in China?

Do we have a lack of social awareness or education about this?

[Kyle Matthews]

All around the world, even in Canada, you can see that most people don't look favourably on China anymore.

Public polling of companies and citizens across the world, Canada included, shows that populations have totally unfavourable views of the Chinese government. It's partly COVID. It's partly the Uighur genocide, where concerns about it have really exploded, including as a result of campaigns against the fashion industry using slave labour.

There's a combination of factors, and you see this everywhere—in Western Europe, in Asia. It's a dangerous time for the Chinese authorities because they've been acting in a way that's very authoritarian, and they're making many enemies, not just among governments but among individual citizens.

On the issue of genocide, I'm not sure if the average Canadian knows the details of everything that's going on, but it's pierced people's conscience, and the attack against journalists and politicians is not a good look for Beijing.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Ms. Wong, did you want to comment?

[Cherie Wong]

Social media has always been a tool of authoritarian regimes. They're able to use bots to create misinformation. This is where, as you said, we should be doing this kind of education because everyday Canadians are individuals who can choose between a slave-labour-made product and a non-slave-labour-made product. They are the people who are going to be investing in foreign actors, and they should know whether or not they're associated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I have to go on to the next member.

Ms. Kwan, you have two and a half minutes please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I'd like to ask Ms. Wong about self-censorship on the part of the local Chinese media. Does she see that happening, especially on the reporting of issues that may be critical of the Chinese government?

[Cherie Wong]

Absolutely. Self-censorship has been widespread in the Chinese ethnic media because many journalists have families or friends who are still in China and PRC-controlled regions. They're afraid that if they speak up, their family and friends could be endangered.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

From that perspective, how can we address that issue? Is there any way that could be addressed in such a way that we could ensure that freedom of democracy and press is actually respected here in Canada?

[Cherie Wong]

There's a very simple solution to this very complicated problem: fund ethnic media.

The reason it has been so infiltrated by the CCP is that they have been bringing in the resources that the Canadian government and Canadian local communities have been unable to provide. We need to build community resilience against this kind of misinformation and selective reporting. Providing more funding and providing support on the basis of this larger issue of foreign influence will also help address the issue.

I can't stress this enough. We need to put money into ethnic communities, especially right now as we talk about how the CCP has really hurt dissident communities.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

This is a particularly important issue, because many of the Chinese Canadians who read the local press will only just see what is reported, and if there's self-censorship taking place, then that information and what is taking place and concerns about China is not getting out to the larger public. Sometimes it could even be skewed.

Have you observed that some of the reporting is, in fact, skewed in favour of China?