Canadian Heritage Committee on March 6th, 2008

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Cohen, thank you for being with us this afternoon. In view of the fact that not all broadcasters are members of your association, how do you react to the fact that this voluntary code can apply to all broadcasters, whether or not they are members of your association? Do you think this approach is a good one?

[Ronald I. Cohen]

You said that the code was voluntary. That's inaccurate; it's not voluntary at all. The code is mandatory for every broadcaster in Canada.

The CBC, CPAC and Télé-Québec must comply with our code; they don't have a choice. Even broadcasters who are not members of our association have an obligation to comply with the standards contained in the code.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

If I understand correctly, when the CRTC grants a licence, the code applies to all broadcasters.

[Ronald I. Cohen]

It applies to every broadcaster in Canada.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

A little earlier, you seemed to tell Mr. Siksay that your association didn't think Mr. von Finckenstein's proposal to establish a scale of penalties for broadcasters who do not comply with the code was necessary.

Can you explain to us why you think it's not necessary?

[Ronald I. Cohen]

It's because broadcasters obey the decisions we render. It's as simple as that. It's not at all necessary to have some kind of gun in order to compel compliance with the standards contained in the four codes that we currently administer.

Doc Mailloux's program, which you must know well enough, is no longer broadcast on CKAC. Do you think the solution would be to punish him by assessing fines? Could that help, in view of the fact that our decisions resulted in Doc Mailloux leaving the airwaves?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Thank you, Mr. Cohen.

Mr. Malo, you'll have to wait for the next round to answer that question.

Mr. Abbott, go ahead, please.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

It's Mr. Chong.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for appearing in front of committee today.

First of all, I will say that we too are opposed to this bill, but I do share some of the concerns that some of the other members of the committee have brought up.

I don't think you can make a valid argument that just because complaints have declined, it necessarily means that children's health has not been negatively impacted over the last eight years. I make that point because the CRTC's policy framework on this issue is, as you mention in your submission here, not framed as a moral one but rather as one that is based on the harm test--in other words, harm to children's health. When we're talking about violence on TV, we have to make the connection between the two, violence on TV and whether or not it has a negative impact on children's health. I don't think it necessarily follows that because there's been a decline in complaints, there's not been a negative impact on children's health over that period.

Furthermore, I'd also add that I believe that television-viewing audiences in the last number of years have also declined, so that may in part account for the declining complaints, because of increased usage of the Internet and other recreational activities that people are now increasingly turning to.

It's just a comment I make. I don't have a question, Mr. Chair.

[Ronald I. Cohen]

Allow me to clarify one minor point.

It's not to take a position contrary to what you've just raised. It's interesting. You should be aware of the fact that the actual number of complaints that we are receiving at the CBSC is increasing. The actual number is increasing, although you're saying that there may be some migration of eyeballs and ears to the Internet. It's just to say that between the year 2000 and this year, the total number of complaints we're receiving has gone up. It's just to say that they're not disappearing. Maybe people are becoming more literate and conscious.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair, maybe you'd clarify this, because in your report it actually says there has been a decline of about 22% in television violence complaints between 2000 and the end of February 2008.

[Ronald I. Cohen]

That's right, yes, because the percentage of complaints that related to television violence was, in 2000, 12.76% of the total complaints we had received. Even though the number of overall complaints we have received has gone up, the level of violence complaints in the current year has gone down to 9.95% of the complaints we've received. Hence, the 22% decline in that percentage.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Thank you.

Ms. Mourani, do you have a point of order?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I hope I misheard. Earlier, when my colleague Mr. Malo was speaking, I thought I heard Mr. Cohen insinuate that our colleague Mr. Bigras perhaps has a disease.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Perhaps Mr. Cohen wants to add a comment?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I can understand that this bill makes Mr. Cohen react, but I nevertheless feel we can speak to each other properly.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Your comment has been heard and noted.

Allow me to ask some questions, since I'm used to doing that, just as the regular Chairman does as well.

Mr. Cohen, perhaps you gave them to me, but do you have, not the percentages, but the absolute figures? Exactly how many complaints do you receive concerning violence?

[Ronald I. Cohen]

In 2000-2001, there were 140 complaints about violence on television. You must understand that that includes complaints against violence in the news, in sports and so on. We're not just talking about dramatic programs.

In 2007-2008, there have been 114 to the end of February.

However, you must understand that, in one program on Vision TV, an imam seated at a table was talking about the Koran and mentioned jihad, and that people concluded that that amounted to violence on television.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

If you have an analysis of those 114 complaints, please send it to the committee.

In response to a number of questions, you repeated that the code is mandatory and that it's only stated in the title that it's voluntary. The word “voluntary” in fact appears in the title, but it also appears in your folder where you refer to a voluntary code system for obtaining programming standards. You also refer to it on the back of your folder where there are a number of voluntary codes.

If you allow me to make a suggestion, I would say that, if the code isn't voluntary, perhaps that fact should be more clearly indicated.

[Ronald I. Cohen]

Thank you for that suggestion, Mr. Chairman.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Thank you.

Colleagues, we will end this round.

Please stay. Within 30 seconds we'll go to a public meeting, but not broadcast, in order to do some committee business.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you very much for being here.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Ladies and gentlemen, as you will remember, last Tuesday, we agreed to defer the motions that Ms. Mourani presented to us until Thursday, that is today.

Do you want us to dispose of them now? I inform you, however, that, if the bell rings, we'll have to terminate the meeting.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to withdraw one motion.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I'd just like to be helpful. I might suggest that we could probably very quickly dispose of the motion regarding the Internet, and then if we want to, we can deal with the other motion.