Evidence of meeting #30 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was content.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Konrad W. von Finckenstein  Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Scott Hutton  Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

4:35 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Konrad W. von Finckenstein

It's definitely not compensating, it's really to induce compliance, in effect as a reminder: there is a system here; there is a rule, and you haven't abided by it. Please abide in future, and because you did not, here—and essentially this is why it's called an administrative monetary penalty—you're being penalized for non-compliance.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Where a penalty has been imposed, is there a review possibility?

4:40 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Konrad W. von Finckenstein

Any decision that we make, you can take to the Federal Court of Appeal for judicial review.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

Mr. Bélanger.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. von Finckenstein, I would like to come back to one of your comments. On page 3 of your speech, we read:

I would like to be clear on one point. Our interest primarily lies in the distribution of professionally produced broadcasting content. That is, the same kind of high-quality Canadian content you would normally watch on television or hear on the radio.

I am intrigued by that sentence, Mr. von Finckenstein. Is it in relation to amateur, non-professional, second-rate content?

4:40 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Konrad W. von Finckenstein

This is something we will have to define in our future hearings. We are responsible for the broadcasting system and the act governing it. Obviously this act is concerned with professional broadcasting, and not programs produced by individuals who wish to share them with their friends, or other such things. I do not think it is the government’s role to oversee how this type of activity takes place. We are talking here about for-profit professional activities.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

What about the professional activities broadcast on YouTube, for instance? You mentioned YouTube, as if it was of no interest to the CRTC.

If a private broadcaster said that, since this seems to work, it is going to start broadcasting its content there too, would that pose any difficulties for you?

4:40 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Konrad W. von Finckenstein

No. I was referring to the original YouTube, which was a portal leading to a site showing amateur videos. If a broadcaster or a private company used YouTube as a means of distributing its professional content, obviously that would concern us.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

What is your definition of professional content?

4:40 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Konrad W. von Finckenstein

I do not have a better word to describe it. We will have to define what constitutes private, amateur, etc. activities. This is not a broadcasting matter. I use the word “professional” to describe broadcasting activities, but obviously this is something that should be clarified.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

Ms. Fry.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

We see a convergence of telecommunications and broadcasting. This is happening, this is coming. We want Canada to take advantage of the opportunity to compete in this arena. According to your report from Dunbar and Leblanc, we need to look at ways of helping Canada to participate in this competitive medium.

However, there has to be some way of regulating certain things like advertising. Given that there is a convergence, given that you had suggested that we don't amend the Broadcasting Act, what about looking at a new convergence act, a communications act, that is made up of the Telecommunications Act and the Broadcasting Act? I would think that the time has come to look at an innovative move forward in this area.

4:40 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Konrad W. von Finckenstein

I couldn't agree with you more. We see a technological convergence. The technology of broadcasting and telecom has merged, and so has the industry. Is Rogers a broadcaster or a telecom enterprise? You can look at it either way. When you watch a movie over a portable device, are you in broadcasting or are you in telecommunications? Who knows? Convergence is there.

The problem is that we have two very different administrative frameworks. For telecom, we want to let the market rule and we only intervene in cases of market failure. In broadcasting we have two goals: a cultural goal and a social one. They won't be achieved by market forces. They can only be achieved by active intervention.

How do you merge those two regimes in light of merging industry and technology and still maintain your position? That is a conundrum. There are solutions, but we have to confront the problem.

I agree with you; maybe a new act would be a solution, or maybe we could revise both acts with some common denominator in mind. Sooner or later, we will have to do one or the other.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

You just have to look at BlackBerry; they are now coming up with getting into iPod and getting into music and getting into broadcasting as well. So I think we shouldn't be waiting to do this.

4:45 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Konrad W. von Finckenstein

Mrs. Fry, that is the challenge of the day for me. Trust me, we are working on it, but it's not an easy problem to resolve.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

Well, we can help you push. We need to help you push at this level.

4:45 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

We're pretty well out of time.

You can have one little one.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

It's just a quick question. It's mainly on the TQS. I just want to understand. I know there are going to be hearings coming forward on TQS. I'd like to know what the approach for the CRTC is going to be. Is the approach to make sure that they respect their conditions of licence and maintain their news service? Or is it to assure that their survival is going to continue?

4:45 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Konrad W. von Finckenstein

There is a hearing coming up, as you well know. There's an application by Ramstar to acquire the licence of TQS. They have it now on a temporary basis so that TQS didn't go off the air. They're operating it under a temporary list. We're going to have hearings in both Montreal and Quebec City in order to get the view from as many participants and as many people in the province of Quebec as possible, and then we're going to make a judgment in accordance with the Broadcasting Act.

Now, the Broadcasting Act is clear on establishing goals. It leaves a considerable amount of discretion to the commission on how to interpret the goals, how to apply them, and over what time period.

Until we have the hearing and I hear from all sides, I cannot answer your question any more than to say we will be guided, as always, by the objectives of the Broadcasting Act in trying to obtain that.

I remind you that the Broadcasting Act has a provision that specifically says we can make rules for the French market that are different from those for the English market where that's necessary, and we feel it's necessary for the attainment of the objectives of the Broadcasting Act.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

And they're operating right now under a temporary—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

We're done.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

No, just....

They're operating now—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

Don't say “no” to me. I've already given you—

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

No, I'm asking, through you, if they're operating on a temporary.... I didn't hear what he had said.