Canadian Heritage Committee on March 7th, 2011

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

That's not what I said. What I said is that it was a cooperative approach. Everybody has a responsibility. The broadcasters have an important responsibility to actually give us the information as to when they're transitioning so we can actually communicate and coordinate. But we are working together; it's everybody's responsibility together.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

With five months to go, I'm surprised that there isn't some sort of plan or strategy document so that you could share with us a little more on what the plan specifically is to make all the public—800,000 households, or 30,000, or whatever the magic number is—aware of the transition.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

The fact that I'm not at liberty to show it to you doesn't suggest there isn't a plan or a strategy that exists.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Okay, I'll let that one go.

In your report you say that the CRTC came to the same conclusion, that a converter box program like the one implemented in the U.S. is unnecessary in Canada. Why is that?

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

I don't want to speak on behalf of the CRTC—it was here last week—but I believe, from reading its policy decision, that it looked at the number of people affected, and the cost associated with it would have been considerable. If you took a per capita approach of what they spent in the States and just converted to the size of the Canadian population, it would be a program of over $200 million in Canada. I would fear that the administrative costs would be even higher, because we do not have the sort of food stamp process the American government has, to deliver the coupons.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

There are different costings out here right now. CRTC told us it thought the converter boxes would be as low as $30, and you've stated today they're about $45. What's the real number?

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

There are various prices. Not all converter boxes are made the same. Some of them have remote controls, some are very basic, and some aren't the same quality as others. This is a wide range; it's a very competitive market out there.

What I can tell you is that the U.K. had speculated that its boxes would be closer to the $100 range when it started. At the end of the program, they became an impulse item at the checkout counter. That's what market force is.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

And it cost how much?

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

I can't remember the U.K. price.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Your price is $45, you suggested today.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

A few months ago, in June or July, the CRTC thought it was up to $75.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

So where can I purchase a $45 converter box? I'm going to need one.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

I would suggest you look around on several sites. You might want to go to The Source, which has a very rich site that tells you the options there. You can go on eBay. Somebody mentioned to me that some of them were available at Loblaws. They're available in just about every place. I don't know if you have cable or satellite, but most Canadians aren't in that market.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

We called The Source and they're $89. Then we called Sears and they were $69.99. So I don't know where the CRTC gets a number of $30 or where you get $45. But they're considerably more, so the impact on the consumer is going to be a little greater than you're estimating.

We also called your 1-855 number, DTV-5050, this morning. I think you need an education program for the people answering the phones there, quite frankly. They tried to direct us to a website, and when we told them we didn't have one, we were left on hold listening to lovely classical music for a long period of time, and then they proceeded to read to us. I don't mean anything against classical music. But they were very unprepared to answer our questions, and they just proceeded to read the website to us over the phone. When we asked how much the converter boxes would cost, we were told they would cost in excess of $100.

So there are a lot of numbers floating around. I think I'd like some more consistency with what we're telling consumers. We've got a million people who are going to be out there attempting to purchase a digital converter, and I don't know what to tell them—where they should go, where they should turn, and what this will cost. I don't understand the decision that the government won't try to assist these people to offset these costs.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

Thank you for the feedback from the website. Certainly I'll follow up on that, and the quality of service we're paying for from Service Canada, and make sure we're getting what we're being charged for.

The reality is that we're in quite early days in this, and, frankly in terms of numbers, I would dispute your saying there are a million people who will be affected by this. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not persuaded. And in fact the CRTC, the expert independent tribunal, is putting it at a far smaller number.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

They're probably the most vulnerable of our population who can least afford the cost of the converter. They will be new immigrants, single mothers, aboriginals, or handicapped persons--the people who will need the subsidy the most.

Let's move on to the spectrum sale. This is the Holy Grail, frankly. It will be a huge windfall for the government. What do we anticipate the government netting as a result of the spectrum sale?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Madam Crombie.

Mr. Dupuis.

[Marc Dupuis]

We do not make any predictions on how much can be raised through auction, because we have no control over what bidders will bid for the spectrum. I just can't make a prediction. I'm sorry, I wish I could. There's no number I can provide that would be accurate. Past auctions have generated large amounts of money and small amounts of money. It all depends on the spectrum and who's willing to bid for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dupuis.

Madam Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First and foremost, Mr. Blais, we tried to get an overall picture of the situation earlier, but we were not successful.

I would like you to work on that with your colleagues in the industry and then send it to the committee to help us understand what will happen, how those 850,000 homes are made up and how to address their specific problems. That is the information I want.

You mentioned the Saguenay region, and I know the government contracted out its problems to the private corporation Shaw, which will offer satellite service to those who are in remote areas, I would imagine. However, I am not sure whether you recall what happened in the fall. The CRTC held a hearing on satellite service, and the following problem was raised: many homes in Quebec, in the Saguenay region and in every region, do not have access to local television programming through their satellite provider.

In terms of Radio-Canada programming, for example, 45,000 homes in the Saguenay region do not receive their local Radio-Canada channel, but the one for Montreal. And the company responsible for that, Shaw, is your subcontractor for television distribution service. Did you not consider the possibility that this would only make the problem worse rather than better?

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

I see you think all the government's arms are controlled by the same brain, but some decisions are made by the department while some are made by the CRTC.

The availability of local service through satellite providers—as in the situation you referenced—is a regulatory issue and one that has to do with satellite capacity. Given that there is a limited amount of satellite space for the distribution of local signals, the CRTC determined that certain signals would be mandatory while others would not.

Unfortunately, some people, such as those you mentioned, do not have local service. I would advise you to put that question to the CRTC instead because it pertains to a regulatory issue.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

We know, having seen it recently, that whenever the government doesn't like what is happening over at the CRTC, it happily intervenes.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

My CRTC colleagues were here last Monday, and that would have been a great time to raise the question about satellite service. I cannot be held accountable for their public policy.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Did you consider the problem? The fact remains you coordinate the working group, and I am telling you there is a problem. Will you do anything about it?

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

Yes. When it was here, the CRTC told the committee that it had changed its regulatory framework to allow satellite companies—Bell TV primarily—other than Shaw to provide a more affordable local signal package without making all the other signals available. So it changed its regulatory framework.

Even though Shaw put up $15 million to help address the situation, now Bell also has the opportunity to provide a reduced local service package.