Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 24th, 2011

[Anthony Sherwood]

The story of Marie-Joseph Angélique was popularized recently by the book by Afua Cooper. It is a remarkable story about how this young black slave was accused of setting fire to Montreal and was tortured. This all stemmed from the Code Noir, which was a rule imposed by the French in 1709 in Quebec that gave the French permission to own and sell slaves.

These are all stories that could be promoted, as the OBHS has done through their website, through films, short films, that have been done about Marie-Joseph Angélique, and there are some.

There is a rich history in terms of black history in Quebec. The Quebec Board of Black Educators introduced a curriculum of education to the ministère de l'Éducation du Québec called “Some Missing Pages”. This was years ago. I don't know if the school boards use that anymore, but it was introduced many years ago.

I produced a film a few years ago about the Union United Church of Montreal, which celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2007. One of the groups that formed that church was the Coloured Women's Club of Montreal. The Coloured Women's Club of Montreal is the oldest women's organization in Canada. A lot of people don't know that. There is a rich African Canadian history in Montreal and in Quebec.

Certainly the OBHS has been instrumental in promoting that history, and my company has taken an active involvement in terms of producing those stories and films.

There are so many stories throughout the country. Some of the first inhabitants in Victoria and Salt Spring Island in British Columbia and in the Athabasca valley in Alberta were black. Some of the earliest settlers in southern Ontario, and certainly in Nova Scotia, were of African descent. There are many regions. And Quebec should not be excluded in terms of telling these stories, because it has a rich history.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Merci.

Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the two witnesses. You have been going at it for a couple of hours now. I appreciate that. I'll ask you a couple of questions and that's it.

Ms. Sadlier, I want to know how we can bring organizations such as yours, from across Canada, together. Is there cooperation between them? Are there resources we can put forward in the lead-up to 2017 to do some of the things you're talking about, working not in isolation but perhaps together?

You also said in your remarks that African Canadians are unique due to the loss of culture. I'm wondering how, in the context of 150 and in the lead-up to 150, we can reverse that in communities themselves, and not just for a museum.

When you talk about museums.... I'm from the Italian community. We can't agree on where our museum should be. We can't agree on what should be in the museum. We can't agree on anything. It has become more a divisive thing than a unifying thing. Different parts of the community will no longer talk to each other. They have become complete enemies over what was supposed to be a unifying thing.

In the context of Canada's 150th, how do we avoid that?

[Rosemary Sadlier]

I would hope there might be support for not necessarily standing committee meetings, but other opportunities for African Canadian heritage workers to gather to maybe share some of this information and possibly work out some of the material that you have outlined.

Of course, my own bias in terms of a location is clear. Given that Confederation was sort of determined, numbers of votes were cast and so forth, based on numbers of people, if we want to play with that particular template, then Toronto would be the place where such a centre for African Canadian history and culture might be erected. Certainly there have been some recent things that have happened, with the mayor outlining in the newspaper recently where a development has come about that will end up being mutually beneficial to the developer and to the city of Toronto. There might be some kind of special arrangement that could be created, not necessarily in the super tallest building that's about to be created in the city of Toronto—my own bias—but there might be some other opportunity.

The number of organizations that are working on African Canadian history are limited. The Black Cultural Centre is doing very well the way things are currently. They've just remodeled and revamped what they have. That came about through an interesting process, but it's sort of settled now. Maybe it is Toronto's turn to have the opportunity to have that kind of a structure. It's been pointed out by myself and by other people here that the black community is not a thing. It is many things. It is multicultural in and of itself. I think that having that space in that place, where it is so diverse, would make the most sense.

That can inform the rest of the country. Why is there a museum for civilization in Hull? Why do we have a museum for human rights out west? Decisions have been made, and I think that might be one decision that would be appropriate for Toronto.

[Anthony Sherwood]

Rosemary and I were part of a consultative committee formed by Parks Canada to erect an underground railroad exhibit at the Royal Ontario Museum, and I think the same template could be applied in terms of forming a creative consultative committee in the formation of this museum that would involve the participation of people out east, the Black Cultural Centre in Nova Scotia, the Chatham-Kent region of Buxton, Amherst, and out west.

I think it's important to have the museum because the country needs it. I understand and sympathize completely with the Italian community because we have the same problems in the black community as well.

One certainty is that all the black Canadian communities and organizations around the country realize there is a need for a national museum. The formulation of what is to be there, what it is going to contain, and what is the structure can all be decided and hashed out, but we're all in agreement that one needs to be created.

I don't think it's realistic to understand that the Canadian government is going to put down $100 million to build a building from scratch. There are all kinds of buildings—abandoned churches, abandoned cinema houses, companies vacating buildings—that could be either donated by companies or by religious groups that could be used. All across the country, there are buildings popping up vacant.

[Rosemary Sadlier]

If I can just add, at the point when we created our business plan, it was around the time that a black church might have been available for us to have used, but processes were such that it wasn't possible.

I also want to mention that it isn't just the black community that thinks there ought to be an African Canadian museum. The consultant we used had never had such overwhelmingly positive support for any project they had worked on to date.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Calandra.

Thank you to both of our witnesses for taking the time to field a lot of questions. Your input is very much valued as we begin our study on Canada's 150th birthday. We thank you also for some concrete suggestions and your openness to dialogue with us in the future.

Oh, Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I don't know whether you want to dismiss the witnesses first. I have a question in regard to the budget and the appearance of the minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

The meeting is over. We're a minute over now. It's 10:46.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

It was a concern about the date of appearance. I want to make sure it's not too late.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Do you have the date of the appearance of the minister?

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

We have the date, but I'm concerned that it's going to be too late. We're hearing that the deadline is the 30th.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

It hasn't been confirmed yet, and I have to adjourn the meeting.

The meeting is adjourned.