Canadian Heritage Committee on May 6th, 2013

[Chantal Amyot]

We're currently working on the program that is in line with the road to 2017, so we're developing a series of artifacts on Canadian history for the road to 2017. Exhibitions like those we're having on 1867 and the Empress of Ireland match exactly within that. At the War Museum they're going to open an exhibition on peace at the end of the month.

We're looking at building up to 2017. Of course the big exhibition in 2017 will be this new hall. There are also many programs that we offer that will be in line with those temporary exhibitions, or we might have some scholars coming to talk about Canadian history. This week there is an event at the War Museum for the great Canadian debates. These things all fit into the road to 2017.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

I'm wondering if there's anything more you'd like to tell the committee in terms of any other upcoming events that the museum is going to be a part of, or that you'll be promoting in order to promote the significant aspects of Canadian history. I know that there are many important dates coming up. Is there anything you'd like to share with us in terms of other initiatives?

[Chantal Amyot]

Right now, the planning for the exhibition program is not complete, but I think the next one is going to be an exhibition on the St. Lawrence River. I'm not sure if I'm answering your question perfectly. Right now we are in the planning, so some exhibitions are determined, signed, and already on their way, while others are still being talked about.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

What do I have for time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have two and a half minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

That's great.

I appreciate that answer. It was helpful, but obviously there's a number of other important and significant dates in the next little while and leading up to 2017. What I was seeking from you is whether there are any plans in place that you want to share with us today in terms of promoting some other important aspects of Canadian history.

[Chantal Amyot]

I think the next one would be on Champlain. We have a small display on Champlain.

Are there any others?

The royal proclamation...?

[Dr. Xavier Gélinas, Curator, Canadian Political History, Canadian Museum of Civilization]

There is also something that is so large and evident as to have escaped our attention. At the Canadian War Museum, which, as you rightly said, is our sister or brother institution, the anniversary of the First World War, of course, is imminent.

They have a whole series of commemorations devoted to this mega-event, including all the things that are of particular importance and are dear to Canadians, such as the Vimy Ridge battle and other elements, and not just in a narrowly, so to speak, patriotic angle but fully in the national angle as well. That will be for the war museum component of the CMCC.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

That's great. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I'm glad to hear that you're going to be working on that aspect. It's a very important part of our history.

[Dr. Xavier Gélinas]

Oh yes, we will be.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

I'll turn over my remaining time to Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

How much time do I have time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have one minute.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Really quickly, I have both a thank you and a question.

First, about 500 metres from my home, a Wendat village—the Mantle site, as it is called—was found. It is a site that has completely changed our thinking about our first nations and the villages that we thought they lived in. The scope of this find is monstrous, and I know that the museum has played a leading role there, or in helping to preserve some of the collection, some of the artifacts, that were found there.

In essence, thank you from our community, because the excitement around this is truly remarkable. We've learned that this village's cornfields, for instance, were the size of Toronto, and that there were some 70 longhouses. The interest that it has sparked within our local community has been truly unbelievable. Thank you for doing that.

Curatorially, how are you deciding what is going into the museums? What influences are you taking...? Do you have the independence that you need to make the right choices?

[Chantal Amyot]

We totally have the independence. We have a curatorial team of about 15 researchers working on the new hall. We're currently working on the storyline. We are going to start the storyline at 15,000 years ago and then go all the way up to today. It's a long storyline.

With the researchers, we are looking at the events and personalities that we would like to underline. We will talk to museologists. We're talking to all kinds of different specialists, along with an advisory committee of historians from across the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Calandra.

Mr. Nantel, you have seven minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The witnesses are not unaware that they are appearing before a committee whose members do not always share the same opinion, about many things. I would like to remind you that we tabled a notice of motion. I would therefore like to debate the motion that we tabled, which I will read to you:That the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage immediately halt its study on Canadian history considering the interference with provincial jurisdiction on education.

It seems important to me to remind you of our position on this issue. Since the very beginning, since this proposal was made, while respecting Canadian history and its many witnesses, this interference with an area of provincial jurisdiction has caused an outcry throughout Canada, particularly in Quebec. This interference seems entirely inappropriate to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Nantel, do you think this discussion on your motion is going to take the rest of the meeting? If so, I would let our witnesses—

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

I don't believe so. I think that we are entirely capable of discussing it briefly and then voting on it. Absolutely.

If other members of the committee wish to speak to it, then let's talk about it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Okay.

Mr. Nantel is asking for a vote on his motion, but we have a speakers list right now.

Mr. Cash is next.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As referenced already, it seems the focus of this study is to understand what primary and post-secondary educational institutions in the provinces and territories are doing about history.

Let's leave aside the fact that secondary education isn't in here. It does seem as if the motion was drafted on the back of an envelope, Mr. Chair. This is a provincial jurisdiction, and we don't feel this line of study is germane to our committee. We have already heard a witness say that this is the work of historians in universities, not of our government.

We are very interested in the ways in which we tell our stories and the access Canadians have to them, and that's why we have been advocating that we look into the impact of cuts to the CBC, to the LAC, to the NFB, to Telefilm, and in fact, the narrowing of the mandate of the Canadian Museum of Civilization.

We feel that there is a lot of groundwork this committee doesn't get to because we keep embarking on these kinds of studies, and the government side tries to frame this as a debate between those who love the military and those who don't, which is an outrageous framing of the debate and is an insult to Canadians.

So Mr. Speaker, I support my colleague's motion and look forward to seeing some sense being brought to this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Next on the speakers list we have Madam Boutin-Sweet, and then Mr. Calandra.

Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Dubé.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Ms. Boutin-Sweet, I am sorry.

I would also like to support the motion put forward by my colleague, Mr. Nantel.

Indeed, I find this very interesting. In fact, I myself studied history and I am a member of the historical society in my riding. I am very familiar with the role that historians play. We heard witnesses, as Mr. Nantel already mentioned. There is one problem. It is not up to a government to decide what will be studied in history. We all have our own biases.

I think it is not up to us to decide. We have the proof when we look at the text of the first motion. There is no mention of first nations and no mention, unless I am mistaken, of Quebec, of the Quebec nation or of francophones outside of Quebec. It seems to me that when we talk about Canadian history, those are important elements to point out.

We see the problem. We are stuck with these decisions and we do not have the complete picture. If I had the opportunity to amend the motion and include the multitude of historical events that were not included in the examples provided, we would be here until tomorrow morning. I think that is proof that it is not up to politicians to decide on history, it is up to historians, for whom I have a great deal of respect, since I am one, actually.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

On just a quick note, now we have a speakers list with three more people on it. Mr. Nantel moved the motion and said he would like to get to a vote on it quickly. If we're going to take up too much time debating the motion, I'm going to dismiss the witnesses.

Hopefully we can keep our remarks short. If we want to speak longer, then I need to dismiss the witnesses.

Madam Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

This will be short and sweet.

I am an archeologist. Obviously I am interested in the archeological aspect. My colleagues are right: this is not an archeological study but a historical one, and teaching history is a provincial responsibility. We are reminded regularly in the House of Commons that we cannot deal with one subject or another because it falls under provincial jurisdiction. This subject is a provincial matter.

Moreover, this a very long study and a host of topics have been put forward. The Conservative government is hardly trying to hide that this is their way of punishing the opposition. It is childish! The Conservatives want to make sure they control what happens in committee. This means that we cannot present our own motions because this one could last for months on end.

There is something else in this motion that really displeases me. Indeed, most of the examples given are related to the military. History is not only military history, although this is an important aspect. There is no mention, for example, of the industrial revolution, which is an important part of Canadian history. There is hardly any mention of social development. There are biases that I do not like. If we were to study history, we would have to study much more than this and it would require many months. That is not what we are here for. We are not here to waste Canadians' money by undertaking studies to simply penalize the opposition.