Canadian Heritage Committee on March 30th, 2015

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

In 2003, yes.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Yes, in the 2003 election, and they did it. They didn't consult business people who would have to basically pay for it. It cost them tens of millions of dollars, which was a big concern, and would be a big concern.

The school boards have curriculum in every subject they have to get through by the end of the year. Have you heard any concerns about the school boards getting through the curriculum?

Do you have any numbers on what it might cost business to have a brand new holiday?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes, we do have the general numbers of what it would normally cost to create a holiday on the national level.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Do you remember what that is?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Within the province of Ontario, you're traditionally looking at about $1 billion.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

A billion.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Nearly, for the entire province to be shut down, and that's not an insignificant amount.

With a day like Remembrance Day, it's a little hard to pinpoint that number because of all the other factors. Ontario and Quebec are open, but the rest of the provinces and territories for the most part aren't. The United States isn't. Most of Europe is also taking that day. A lot of the regular business that could be done ends up being impacted. I've heard countless stories over the years whereby people call the company branch in Alberta or in British Columbia and when the phone rings, it goes to voice mail, and the call doesn't get returned. The caller doesn't even realize they're off.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

At the cenotaph in Oakville, for example, we might have 500 people, if it's not raining. If it's raining, it's 300 or something. I know a lot of them have come out of their offices. They're small-business people and they have taken the time to go to the cenotaph. So I know that's partially true.

Would you like to take a minute or so and summarize why you introduced the bill? I know you did an introduction, but is there a short summary you can come up with as to why you introduced it?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

The shortest summary for me would be the importance that my family has always taken in Remembrance Day, starting with my great-grandfather, who served in both world wars. A great-great uncle on my mother's side was killed in the First World War and is buried near the Somme. I've had a continuous level of service in my family from the Korean War to two cousins who did tours in Afghanistan. It's always been incredibly important to us. Over the years I've certainly made the effort in every instance possible to take the time off to go to the cenotaph in my riding, the one that represents all of Scarborough, to participate in the ceremonies. When my grandmother was in the Canadian Women's Army Corps, she marched to the cenotaph at the first Remembrance Day after the Second World War.

It has great meaning for us. A group of people go to those ceremonies every year, and every year a few of them are missing because they couldn't get the time off work and aren't able to go and commemorate the way they would like. That's employees and owners of small businesses.

This past Remembrance Day, one of my good friends, Stephen Gregoire, who runs Eagle Beaver Sports in the riding, wasn't able to get down to the cenotaph until 10 p.m. on the 11th because of work, but he still made the time to do that. That's where it's important. The people for whom this matters are going to make the effort, and I want to make it easy for them. There are always going to be people who are going to use a day like this as a day off; it doesn't matter what we do. Those aren't the folks I want to focus on; it's the folks for whom this has meaning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

Before we go to Ms. Latendresse, I have a quick question for you, Mr. Harris, or maybe someone else, who comes from a province where Remembrance Day is a stat holiday. I think I already know my answer, but the years when Remembrance Day happens on a Saturday or Sunday, the stat holiday follows on the Monday or the Friday, is that the case?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That is typically the case. Previous versions of this bill that have been introduced into the House also laid out a provision for it to be on the last Friday before or the Monday after. That was something I sought to remove from the bill. With respect to Remembrance Day, the day itself is what's important. The 11th is the 11th. If it falls on a weekend, that should be the day. Again, it's not about having the day off, it's about having the opportunity to commemorate. If that means that people who work in businesses are there on weekends and end up having that day as opposed to a regular weekday worker who gets the day off, then so be it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Latendresse, pour cinq minutes.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Harris, I would like to come back to a comment you made in response to a question from my colleague, Mr. Young.

You said that our veterans often participate in ceremonies, commemorative events, on November 11. Veterans could visit schools ahead of time to talk about the upcoming day and, on the actual Remembrance Day, the children could participate in the ceremonies and events along with veterans. That would be another reason to make the day a statutory holiday.

Could you tell us more about that? You talked about it briefly in response to one of Mr. Young's questions. It's an interesting idea.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Absolutely, as I think there is some room for improvement.

A number of our veterans make an effort to speak to students at schools to teach them about what happened during the war and share their experience. Veterans occasionally have to miss the ceremonies to do that. If the school activities took place on the last day of school or on the day preceding November 11, veterans would be able to speak to students, teach them about what happened and then attend the ceremonies. The children could also attend.

During the ceremonies held in my region, grade 4 students always sing In Flanders Fields. It would be a shame to lose that. It happens because it's important to their teacher. I'm sure that, even if it was a holiday, he would do the same thing and would invite all the students to attend and bring their families. In fact, many of the parents who are not working come to see their children sing.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

You mentioned something else earlier.

Could you tell us a little more specifically about the stories you have heard from people for whom this really makes a difference? You mentioned reservists who sometimes cannot get time off from work. They can't really participate in the ceremonies, but I think that should be one of the most important commemorations in our country. Do you have any specific stories to share?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes. I was talking about my friend, who was not a reservist.

I would like to point out that all reservists have regular jobs, like everyone else. They have leave to participate in their training, but not to attend or even organize ceremonies. We know that our reservists are as proud to serve as all the regular forces members. They would certainly be happy to participate in events or commemorations. That would be very important, especially after what took place last October. That's when we saw the potential impact on our reservists. I'm certain that everyone would like to have an opportunity at the next November 11 ceremonies to honour our reservists and soldiers who were killed last year.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Dykstra.

This will be the last five minutes of the questioning

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I'm going to give Mr. Armstrong a chance to ask some questions; I know he has a few. If he doesn't use up all the time, I will have one more, but he's eager to ask some questions.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the parliamentary secretary for allowing me to jump in with a couple of questions.

Dan, I want to thank you for bringing this legislation forward. I think this is a very interesting discussion.

I'm from Nova Scotia. We have the Nova Scotia Remembrance Day Act. It means a day off school. Businesses are closed. It's a really big event. It's become bigger over the years. I think your legislation is timely, considering the age of our World War II and Korean War veterans. I can remember, as a child, watching the World War I veterans. All of them are now gone. My grandfather was in World War I. I have military history in my family that is very similar to yours.

As a former elementary school principal, I can tell you that the local legions, in the 19 cenotaph services in my riding, are very active in all the elementary schools, the junior highs, and the high schools in the area, but particularly in the elementary schools. The schools embrace the legions. There's a really strong partnership.

On Remembrance Day you'll see a lot of the youth organizations—the Cubs, the Scouts, and particularly the Cadets, of course, because they're involved directly in the ceremony itself—all wearing their uniforms, and they all attend these services. In Atlantic Canada we have a stronger connection to the military, I think, than a lot of other areas of the country do, based on participation. We have 12% of the population, and about 22% of people in the military originate from Atlantic Canada.

Is there a concern that if we were to bring this legislation forward and put it in some of these other provinces, particularly ones with a huge influx of new Canadians who don't have that tradition, that military history within their own families within Canada...? Is that why you think the legions in other provinces are concerned? The legions in Atlantic Canada are fully behind and engaged in this. Can you comment on that a bit?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

l I think those are the regional differences. Where it already is a holiday I think it is greatly supported. As you mentioned, after Nova Scotia brought in the Remembrance Day Act the participation rates went up. I didn't talk about that earlier because I don't have any statistics to bring forward to prove it, but anecdotally that's what we've heard in different jurisdictions.

Certainly when you say timely, we are coming up on the 100th anniversary of the First World War and the 100th anniversary of Vimy is around the corner. This is a great time to rededicate ourselves to all those brave men and women who have served Canada faithfully throughout the years.

You mentioned also the cadets. In Scarborough on the last Sunday before Remembrance Day there has always been a ceremony that takes place at the Scarborough Civic Centre. It's one of the most impressive sights I've ever seen, because this is a six-storey structure that is very open-aired and each level is recessed further back so of course you have a great sightline. The cadets all are lined up in uniform along each one of those levels. You have hundreds of cadets lined up and every time you look up you see the great future of our country and the next generation that's ready to take their place in defence of our country. As I've said before, I don't think it could ever be said that we've done too much for those who have put their lives on the line for us.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

In my Remembrance Day ceremony, the one where I laid a wreath this year, there were over 10,000 people attending. I would say that of the 10,000 the majority were young people, children. For them to get the opportunity to see our World War II vets, this is an opportunity they're not going to have for many generations in the future, so I do appreciate you bringing this legislation forward. I hope that if it does pass and we have all the provinces embrace this, we do have the participation result from it that we've seen in some of the other provinces.

I'll turn things back over to the parliamentary secretary.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Scott.

Chair, I know that we've tried to deal with a couple of things happening here at committee over the last little while and I do really appreciate Dan coming forward today and presenting.

We have concerns with a couple of things before we go to clause-by-clause on this bill. One, I do believe that we need to potentially bring some witnesses here to committee to speak to some of the things that we brought up today both from a support perspective and there are those who have indicated that they would like to come to committee to speak against the bill.

I also understand that veterans affairs, while the bill is here at heritage, does have an interest in looking at clause 1 of the bill on their own.

So my recommendation, or at least my motion to begin with here, is:

That the Committee request an extension of thirty sitting days to consider Bill C- 597, An Act to amend the Holidays Act (Remembrance Day), beyond the sixty days from the date of the Bill's referral to the Committee, as provided in Standing Order 97.1(1). ), to allow for an examination of the bill by the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs (ACVA).

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Dykstra has moved a motion. Are there copies of that being circulated?

Just so I'm clear, Mr. Dykstra, you are proposing that, first of all, we ask for an extension and secondly that we refer clause 1 of the bill to the veterans affairs committee but we continue concurrently to study this bill as well? Is that the motion?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Yes.