Canadian Heritage Committee on June 17th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you, Mr. Leung.

We'll now move to a five-minute round, beginning with Ms. Sitsabaiesan.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here.

I am going to read a quote from a letter that I think has already been mentioned. It was signed by the Urban Alliance on Race Relations, the National Congress of Italian-Canadians, the Canadian Ethnocultural Council, the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants, the Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic, the Urban Alliance on Race Relations past president, Ryerson University, and the Yee Hong foundation. A lot of these organizations and their members are represented in my constituency, and are very concerned about cuts.

Their letter states as follows:

On the 7th day of May—Asian Heritage Month—...Rogers announced the elimination of all newscasts on its OMNI TV stations. For over 30 years OMNI TV has played a vital and essential role in reflecting and connecting Canada’s culturally diverse and multilingual communities. OMNI TV news programming creates a voice for Canada’s ethnocultural communities to challenge social injustices; it provides programming that pertains to their needs; and more importantly it gives these communities information that the mainstream media does not provide.

From what we've learned, this decision was made without consultation of community members and leaders, who have watched and benefited from OMNI TV for decades. In my opinion, and I know in the opinion of many who have written to me specifically, Rogers has abandoned the spirit of OMNI TV's licence by eliminating the local Cantonese, Mandarin, Punjabi, and Italian news programming. We feel it's systematically dismantling OMNI's ability to meaningfully serve the multilingual audiences.

I know you said, Mr. Pelley, that you have a fiduciary responsibility to your shareholders. That means, quarter over quarter, trying to turn a profit. Your vice-presidents, in a conversation I had with them before, mentioned that not really much has changed: we still have services or programming in the same languages, it's just a pop-culture, news-ish kind of conversation show that's happening now.

But that's not what the communities are looking for. We know that well over a million people rely on OMNI for the news they're receiving on what is happening in this country. You may say that it's not making money....

Well, let me hear what you have to say. What is it you can say about the seniors and many people in my community in Scarborough who rely on the Mandarin, Cantonese, Punjabi, and Italian to get news—not just current events conversation but news on what's happening in our country—in their language?

[Keith Pelley]

We didn't take this decision lightly in any such way. I just wish that more of those people were watching. Obviously, with some of the people who have now come out, I'm not sure they were watching, because the ratings speak for themselves. As I said, ratings are like a pure form of currency, and you could not in any such way through the news programming and the cost of doing it be sustainable in this changing market. Unfortunately, this is not 1979 any more, or 1960 when Donny and Marie had a 60s share. There is so much competition out there, and as a result advertisers have just gone like this.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I'm glad you brought up advertisers. I'm sorry to cut you off, but I don't have a lot of time.

[Keith Pelley]

Sure, no problem.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

My understanding from the local businesses in these language communities is that they haven't really been courted by OMNI. You're saying that you don't have the advertising revenue coming in from the communities, the Cantonese, Mandarin, Punjabi, or Italian communities, and yet I'm speaking with local chambers of commerce and individual entrepreneurs and they're saying that they really haven't been courted.

[Keith Pelley]

No, I would disagree. I think they have been, but that's a very—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Maybe that's something to bring up with your advertising department.

[Keith Pelley]

We have 32 people selling ethnic advertising. I would disagree again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

You have 15 seconds.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I tend to disagree with your disagreement because I'm speaking with people on the ground and this is what they're telling me. It is what it is and I'm sure my 15 seconds are up now. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Mr. Lizon.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for coming here this afternoon.

You were speaking about changing times, saying that everything is changing, the technology etc. You know what? I know everything is changing. When I was growing up, if I wanted to talk to someone, I had to walk and talk in person. Now 50 years later I can sit in front of a computer and with a single touch of the screen or a button, I can actually reach someone. Of course, the world is changing and it's changing dramatically. Therefore, are you saying that you were surprised by this dramatic change and didn't foresee it?

You were talking about financial losses over the years and now we're talking about the recent changes to Cantonese, Mandarin, and Punjabi programming. You also changed what you broadcast in Polish, Ukrainian, and other languages. Therefore, shouldn't you maybe change your business model and look at it differently as a whole model? I'll tell you why. I personally, and I think my colleagues as well, would expect any business that operates in a community not only to draw from the community, but also to give back. If you're talking about financial losses, why don't you look at those dollars as investment back in a community that supports you in wireless, in cable, in other businesses? I think OMNI should not be looked at as a separate little piece of your business. You should look at your customers as a base that you serve not only in this little part, but as a whole.

[Keith Pelley]

I appreciate that comment. The only thing I would say is that, yes, we did see this coming. That's why we've been talking about it for the last three years and why we went to the CRTC and requested the conditions of licence, and that's why we spoke to all three critical parties. That's why we've spoken to ethnic groups. That's why we've spoken to chambers of commerce. We did see it coming.

I understand your last point, but your first point as far as whether or not we we did see it, absolutely we did. We saw the erosion of the advertising, but as I said, $58 million is a lot in any business to make up in four years. You have to be prepared in this media world to change and we're changing and making it as viable as we possibly can to be sustainable. If we weren't investing the money that we are in OMNI, I'm not sure there would be anybody else who would be doing it under the conditions of licence that are currently there, losing the money that we currently are, and producing the programming that we are.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, if I have any time left, I would like to offer it to Mr. Terence Young.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Young, you have about a minute and a half.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

I want to ask Madam Watson if it's the position of OMNI and Rogers Communications that ethnic programming, which is by its nature cultural, is like the products sold in Walmart.

[Colette Watson]

Thank you for that.

My unfortunate comment—and I do apologize unreservedly and unequivocally, Minister, for the flippancy of it—was meant to show that we are a private sector operation. We made a difficult business decision, and based on that... It's a private sector business decision. We have a responsibility to our shareholders and to our superiors.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Pelley, your theory is that people are upset because the news they weren't watching is no longer available to watch, and I don't buy that. People don't go to their MPs and complain about things with no reason.

I want to ask you this. If you went home at the end of the day to watch the news to learn what has happened around the world that might affect your life, your country, your family, and your future, and all you could get in your first language was a soap opera or three people chatting about issues instead of reliable, clear, trustworthy news on which you can plan your career and your future, would you find that acceptable?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

In 15 seconds.

[Keith Pelley]

I'll say two things. First of all, I didn't say nobody was watching. I said that not enough people were watching, and if more people were watching, it would be more viable.

Second of all, I believe there are so many other options now for people to get that information that weren't available back in 1979, so it is not as imperative for OMNI to do it as it was 15 years ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you.

Mr. Nantel, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pelley, did you want to add anything to the answer you gave Mr. Young?

[Keith Pelley]

I concur that there is no doubt that it is very viable to have people watching news in their own language—

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Absolutely.