Evidence of meeting #100 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artists.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Heather Campbell  Program Manager, Small
Veronika Mogyorody  Professor Emeritus, University of Windsor
Philip Evans  Founder, Small
Ashley Proctor  Executive Director, 312 Main
Vincent Karetak  Chairperson, Qaggiavuut
Ellen Hamilton  Executive Director, Qaggiavuut
Laakkuluk Williamson Bathory  Artistic Director, Qaggiavuut
Caroline Salaün  General Manager, Méduse
Claude Bélanger  General Manager, Manif d'art, Méduse

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON

Okay.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

You're at the end of your seven minutes. You have the half minute or you can just pay it forward.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON

Keep going.

9:15 a.m.

Professor Emeritus, University of Windsor

Dr. Veronika Mogyorody

I think we're there. I think it's very dynamic. There have been several attempts, but we also don't have the philanthropy in the community either. We have to find ways we can get investment into the community, otherwise the major core non-profit organizations will stabilize the community but they won't be an incentive to bring people into the community.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Great. Thank you for that.

Now it is Mr. Nantel's turn.

You have seven minutes.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair,

My thanks to both organizations.

The first question I want to ask Ms. Campbell and Mr. Evans is very short. You seem to bring a very valid solution, like Mr. Breton said, for small communities, and anybody would like to see you coming.

I am going to continue in French, seeing that you have the interpretation.

Do you not think that it would be good to see the federal program lead to the establishment of very specific objectives and to budgets being allocated to municipalities, through the provinces, of course, so that they could meet them? My fear is creating white elephants.

It is often said, “new ideas in old buildings”, but if you have a new building, they say, “It's going to be great. You're going to have a big container,” and there is this sterilizing of the whole thing. Do you think it would be better to have a charter coming from Canada and rolling out to the municipalities?

9:20 a.m.

Program Manager, Small

Heather Campbell

I think that's a great question and a really interesting idea. One of the first things that we always say when we go to communities is that the answers are within, that the answers—and “answers” is a strong word—already exist, or the solutions already exist. The people, the buildings, and the assets within communities are what drive the communities forward.

I quite understand your point about the white elephants. Bringing in something new is often not the solution that it appears to be. I think this goes back to the comments that we were making about operational funding and programming within these buildings. The idea of their longevity is quite essential.

To your point, I think allowing or providing municipalities, or groups or individuals within the municipalities, with the ammunition to move these projects forward is essential because we often find that there is one change-maker, driver, or organization that can really create lasting change within a community. They may define it slightly differently than their next-door community or a large urban centre, and the needs are quite different in many cases.

I think your point is quite valid, and I think the municipalities, or smaller organizations or even regional groups in municipalities, really can identify a lot of these solutions.

9:20 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Municipalities have often expressed concerns about high streets that are more and more deserted because people are going to the bigger spaces everywhere or ordering online. When I think of all the storefronts, I think of neighbourhoods that naturally gentrify. Take a poor neighbourhood, for example; artists move in, the neighbourhood goes upscale and it becomes more and more fashionable to live there. Then rents increase, the artists can no longer afford to live there because it has become too expensive, and the stores end up closing. It’s a vicious circle.

I believe that programs like Rues principales are trying to revitalize high streets. However, do you not subscribe to the idea that commercial spaces that are emptying and that, by definition, are very visible because they are located in the heart of our communities, could be rented to artists as creative spaces? Actually, I will let Ms. Mogyorody answer that question.

I went on a tour of Old Detroit, where they have created the Heidelberg Project. The neighbourhood could not have been more residential. I feel that the community art project suffered because it was hard to access. You actually had to be quite daring to get there. Personally, I was often afraid when I was driving along Heidelberg Street.

Is that not a job that has to be done? What do you take away from what they have accomplished in Detroit? It is just across the river from you. Heidelberg is probably the most miserable neighbourhood in Detroit. Do you feel that the Heidelberg Project has been a success?

9:20 a.m.

Professor Emeritus, University of Windsor

Dr. Veronika Mogyorody

Detroit is interesting because if you read The New York Times, if you read all the major papers, it's probably touted as one of the most important comebacks that has occurred in the last two decades. I would concur that some of that is quite possible, but it's in a very small area, so what we're looking at is an area.... For example, the QLine that they've put in only runs about 5,000 metres, and although that's very nice, it's a very short distance.

Detroit came around primarily from the impetus of a philanthropist, Dan Gilbert, who put a sizable amount of money into relocating his firm, Quicken Loans. When he did that, he was able to draw other things from the suburbs. The literature also indicates, when we talk about zero-sum gains.... If you look at some of the areas in the suburbs outside Detroit, you see that what that's doing is removing from one area and putting into another area. There are some people who are concerned about the gentrification of the downtown. It's absolutely phenomenal. It looks great. From a cultural and racial perspective, it's becoming more integrated, which is phenomenal. But what we find is that the outer core is still a very low-income base, and a lot of the areas that were communities, even though they were low-income communities, are being destroyed as that's occurring.

Many of us in the city of Windsor are looking at the positive attributes with that but realizing that we're a multicultural district. Windsor is known for its multiculturalism. As Small has indicated, we really need to have all the stakeholders in the room at the same time to talk about this. It cannot be the core arts organizations leading it or exclusively the local government, but it has to be all the multicultural components and all the individuals who help form the arts.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

You have one minute left.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Okay, thank you.

You referred to Johnson and Marcuse. Were you referring to Judith Marcuse?

9:25 a.m.

Professor Emeritus, University of Windsor

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Judith Marcuse is very active. She's a strong advocate for bringing arts to a healthier life and not only to a professional practice. When I was parking my car in the Heidelberg Project, I can tell you that some neighbours told me, “We're living here. Get the fuck....” These issues are real.

Ms. Campbell, I saw you nodding at Mrs. Mogyorody's remarks. Do you want to add anything?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

You have about 20 seconds. Sorry about that.

9:25 a.m.

Program Manager, Small

Heather Campbell

I think one thing that's important in smaller communities is diversification, and I think that often helps with some of the economic disparities that you see within communities. The idea of economic or cultural diversification in all senses of the word, I think, is quite key, and I'll leave it there.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

Now we are going to Ms. Dzerowicz.

March 27th, 2018 / 9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you so much.

I come from the downtown Toronto area, the riding is called Davenport. It used to be a very industrial area. I have the Junction Triangle there. Artists literally recreated and reimagined the whole community. The only reason it's the coolest neighbourhood in the whole country is because of artists, and they didn't get any support from anyone.

A few years ago I co-founded an environmental group, and because I needed inspiration I actually ended up having a little desk in a place called the Centre for Social Innovation, CSI. I went there because I wanted to be inspired by everybody else who was trying to do really innovative, great things.

This is an interesting study for me. On the one hand, the question really is, how can the federal government help to support and develop these types of cultural hubs? On the other hand, the question is, how do we get out of the way and allow artists and groups to actually get together and do what they need to do for their respective communities?

When I hear people talk about different models in different cities, I don't automatically think they should be replicated in our cities. I have the Green Line that is being created through hydro corridors in my riding. I think it was based on the Green Line in Brooklyn or New York, or someplace or other, but we're doing it with our own twist.

If you look at the Centre for Social Innovation as an example, they've been really creative about how to raise money. Their continued success is all based on how well they continue to tap into the community that needs them, how well they continue to evolve, and how they take advantage of the resources around them and keep pushing the boundaries.

For me, there's this huge part that says I want to be as helpful as possible at the national level, but I also want to get out of the way a bit as well. When we talk about small communities, there have to be enough people in those communities who really care.

In my community, it was the owner of two strip bars who funded all the artists in the community because he wanted it to be a beautiful community. It would be nothing anybody would ever think of, that this would be the person who would actually do it. He was a very Catholic man. You would have never thought he would do that.

I'm grappling with this a bit in terms of how we as a government can help create some of those conditions. Maybe some of those funding mechanisms might be available, that allow some flexibility. Parts of me also think that because cities are creatures of the provinces and constitutional, are there some things we need to lessen up from that perspective as well? I just want to put some of those elements on the table and maybe have both of you react to it. That's where I'm sitting right now. I want to be helpful, but I'm not quite sure yet how we can. I'm not sure if you guys want to react.

9:30 a.m.

Founder, Small

Philip Evans

That's some great insight there. It's actually an amazing transformation, what has played out in the Junction Triangle. There's something a little different. The needs in a rural community are different, in some cases, from those of an urban setting, particularly when you have a growing economy and you have those kinds of resources available. It's one thing to plan for the future, do studies, and invest in arts and culture, those things that seem indirect in terms of the return on investment. In that type of urban setting, it has been a very Toronto pattern of growth: follow the artists, and that's the cue for the developers. In a rural setting, where in many cases you do not have a growing economy necessarily, and in some areas it's retracting, we're acknowledging that there's a different role to be played and maybe a different response from something we're experiencing in the urban setting.

The CSI is doing absolutely wonderful things. It has a bang-up model that it has been working with. It would be great to see more of that. We're seeing a burgeoning of that in many cities across Canada right now.

There might be a different type of response in terms of whether you step aside in the rural context. Once upon a time, many of us lived in rural Canada. In the last 50 years or so, we've seen a resettlement of sorts into urban areas. As we all know, 80% of us are living there. The program grew out of this question: what was our exit strategy? Do we have a larger responsibility, one that was about managing resources and one that was about understanding what these places could be and become? In fact, the rural context might need a different type of response.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Are there any other comments?

9:30 a.m.

Professor Emeritus, University of Windsor

Dr. Veronika Mogyorody

I like the fact that you used the environmental movement as part of this reference. A lot of environmental organizations or social justice organizations have a broad understanding of the major picture, but they all approach it from a very different perspective. In some instances, they work together, and in other instances they're very focused on their specific component.

In areas where the arts and culture are concerned, especially when they're not a cohesive group at the moment—they're working individually—I think what they need is support to get them to talk, not necessarily dictate what decisions they come up with, but offer opportunities for them to gather and support each other.

The CBC has a wonderful program called Still Standing, which I watch all the time. Everybody takes a different approach to that. Even with the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, as cities, each of them views themselves very, very differently. With Ontario, we do not use the Toronto model, because it will never apply to us, not in a million years.

I think how the government can assist is to give opportunities in terms of allowing the groups to come together; give them support and funding for that.

If I can digress, we have an instance in the city of Windsor where some fellow, an artist, has turned his garage into a gallery. It's being used in the community. People come from afar. He's not making very much money, but nobody knows about it; it's only through word of mouth.

Promotion and support are important components. I think that the government can find ways to help those initiatives.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

I'm going to have to cut it there because we have to move on to our next panel.

I want to thank all of you. It was very interesting, and a great way to set us off on how to go about this study on cultural hubs.

Thank you very much.

We're going to suspend for a couple of minutes while we get our new panel together.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

We have a full panel, so we're going to get started right away.

Thank you to our new panel for coming to talk to us on our study of cultural hubs.

From 312 Main, we have with us Ashley Proctor.

We now have Caroline Salaün and Claude Bélanger from the Coopérative Méduse.

From Qaggiavuut we have Vincent Karetak, Laakkuluk Williamson Bathory, and Ellen Hamilton.

We will begin with Ms. Proctor, please, for 10 minutes.

9:40 a.m.

Ashley Proctor Executive Director, 312 Main

Thank you.

Although I consider Toronto my hometown, I'm joining you from Vancouver, B.C. today, where I've been working for the last three years to lead the development of Canada's largest and most inclusive co-working community—312 Main, a 105,000-square-foot property owned by the City of Vancouver located at Main and Cordova in the heart of the Downtown Eastside. It also happens to be the former Vancouver police headquarters, and it has been sitting vacant since 2010.

The building itself is quite imposing—a brutalist design, originally intended to be a display of power and protection. However, being located at the heart of Canada's poorest postal code and at the epicentre of an opioid crisis, in the midst of extreme poverty and homelessness, and with its ties to the ongoing inquiry for missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, many residents of the Downtown Eastside viewed this abandoned city space as negative symbolic capital. About five years ago, the Vancity Community Foundation made a proposal to redevelop 312 Main and entered into a 30-year management agreement with the City of Vancouver. In partnership with the VanCity Credit Union and the Jim Green Foundation, we are collectively reimagining what it truly means to “serve and protect” in the Downtown Eastside.

The design process for 312 Main involved extensive consultation with more than 300 local residents, companies, community groups, co-working experts, indigenous organizations, service providers, municipal staff, and programming partners. What resulted was a co-created model of community and co-working space, a cultural hub intended to serve the needs of an extremely diverse population.

The most common request we received was for affordable, accessible workspace and community gathering space within a challenging Vancouver real estate market. The most frequently requested amenity was for publicly accessible, gender-neutral washrooms. By committing to affordable rates, by building an accessible entrance, and by providing public washrooms on the main floor, we began to see a shift in our community. They weren't used to being heard so clearly and being involved so directly in the creation process. We took that as a sign to continue inviting everyone to the planning table. Collectively, we have designed a building meant to service all, and we are modelling democratic engagement, reconciliation, and inclusivity in everything we do at 312 Main.

For those who have not yet had the experience of visiting our site under construction, I'll describe the facilities we're renovating and creating for artists, entrepreneurs, residents, social enterprises, and small businesses.

On our main floor we're developing approximately 18,000 square feet of community space, including the public washrooms, meeting rooms, training rooms, and gallery and event spaces. The main gathering space features a longhouse-inspired design to welcome all members and guests to participate and to feel comfortable at 312 Main.

The space is designed to be porous and inclusive. It's our goal to make it a flexible space used by members, residents, children, and elders, and to provide low-barrier employment opportunities. Our main floor community house team is working with the trauma-informed security team, local nurse practitioners, tech support services, and a circle of grandmothers to ensure that the space remains accessible, safe, and welcoming for all.

The main floor also houses Megaphone magazine, supporting street vendors who are often struggling with issues of poverty and homelessness, as well as our cafe run by East Van Roasters, a local social enterprise supporting women in transition who are re-entering the workforce.

The gallery and multiple event spaces can accommodate a full range of community events, including our significant commitment to local arts and cultural programming. In our first year alone, we're planning to host art exhibitions, market drumming circles, indigenous language classes, professional workshops and seminars, community support groups, training sessions, live music and theatre presentations, and choir practices. We're partnering with groups such as the Saint James Music Academy to ensure a space for musical instruction for the neighbourhood children. We're also committed to providing a community programming fund to ensure that all organizations can access the facilities at a subsidized rate or free of charge, if required.

Our basement level is being renovated to provide affordable production facilities, artist work studios, and maker spaces. This collaborative workspace also includes an exhibition space, a podcasting room, a local radio station, a tool library, and access to shared equipment and resources for our members.

The second and third floors of 312 Main are dedicated to more traditional co-working space. For those unfamiliar, a co-working space is a shared workspace or office where many independent organizations or individuals are co-located, each working on their own companies, projects, or initiatives, but sharing the space, equipment, resources, staff, and technology.

When we talk about co-working at 312 Main, I really must clarify that we're referring to the co-working movement rather than the recent phenomenon of the co-working industry. Lately the industry has received a lot of attention as many have discovered that the co-working model can provide a stable and significant revenue stream. However, in addition to this, we recognize that a genuine co-working model is truly about the benefits of collaboration and a collective mindset. We understand co-working to be an action as well as a model.

As one of the founders of the co-working movement, after successfully building and managing co-working spaces for artists and entrepreneurs in Toronto and Seattle for the past 15 years, and after visiting more than 500 co-working spaces around the world, I would consider myself to be an expert on the subject. It's become my life's work to share the benefits of the co-working models we're discovering, developing, and empowering in entrepreneurial, creative, and cultural hubs across Canada.

Please let me be clear: we are not simply renting desks and providing members with WiFi and coffee. It's not about the office space itself; it's about what happens when we work together. A genuine co-working space is built intentionally; it's curated and managed to encourage community engagement, to accelerate serendipity. The staff are dedicated to serving members while animating and cultivating the community itself. Above all else, we value collaboration over competition.

In a genuine co-working space, we're making entrepreneurship accessible. We're breaking down barriers and building bridges between communities and industries. We're inspiring and empowering our members. We are sharing best practices and expanding our networks. We are bringing people together, and we are dismantling loneliness. We are building and strengthening our communities. We are accelerating economic development. We are protecting freelancer rights. We are increasing productivity and the capacity of all of our member organizations. We are ensuring the sustainability of social enterprises and small businesses. We are modelling reconciliation, diversity, and inclusivity. Collectively, we're shaping the future of work.

Our co-working members at 312 Main are intentionally diverse. We provide offices and desks for social enterprises, small businesses, arts collectives, independent workers, creative professionals, freelancers, and established entrepreneurs. Our diversity truly is our strength, as we all have unique experiences and knowledge to share around the water cooler. Our fourth, fifth, and sixth floors offer co-located space for larger and more established organizations. These groups maintain private office space while sharing common meeting and event facilities.

The fourth floor is also going to become home to our indigenous healing and wellness centre. This is not a traditional clinic; there are no western practices, but rather, it's a space for indigenous healing practices, and it's led by a collective of indigenous service providers and elders. We are building a quiet space for meditation as well, and a rooftop garden to provide community access to green space and the plants and herbs required for the indigenous healing practices.

We are about to open phase one to the public—the basement, main, and second floor—in June 2018. The third and fourth floors are projected to open in September of this year. Floors five and six and the rooftop garden are projected to open in January of 2019. As I'm sure you can imagine, renovations of this scale are extensive and expensive when converting a shooting range, a 911 call centre, and jail cells into a welcoming, healing space. To date, we are fortunate to have received financial support from VanCity, the Vancity Community Foundation, the Jim Green Foundation, the City of Vancouver, the R. Howard Webster Foundation, and the Department of Canadian Heritage. 312 Main has received two significant contributions from the Canada cultural spaces fund, and we are extremely grateful for that support. On behalf of our entire team and our future members, I sincerely thank you for that.

The financial support we have received to date has been dedicated to covering capital costs, and we are still working to secure funding for the final phases of construction, including replacing jail cell windows on the upper floors and building the indigenous healing and wellness centre and the rooftop garden. We are asking for your continued support and the support of your colleagues as we work to transform this negative symbolic capital into a positive community asset by serving the public need for this valuable arts and cultural infrastructure. With your help, we hope to educate others about the measurable social and economic impacts of creative collaboration through community-engaged co-working. We need support at both the provincial and federal level to ensure contribution from the infrastructure fund to complete the work at 312 Main.

Our working spaces and cultural hubs are easily accessible points of contact with engaged citizens, local businesses, and community leaders. These collaborative models are helping members in communities around the world to thrive, and Canadians are leaders in this field. I encourage you all to continue to support collaborative cross-disciplined partnerships and initiatives that strengthen diverse communities like ours with multiple needs and interests.

I'd like to welcome anyone who'd like to learn more about 312 Main, or co-working in general, to come and visit us in Vancouver and to tour the site under construction.

Thank you, again, for inviting me to participate.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

We'll move down the table to representatives from Qaggiavuut, please.

9:50 a.m.

Vincent Karetak Chairperson, Qaggiavuut

[Witness speaks in Inuktitut]

Thank you, first of all, for allowing us to speak here today.

Qaggiq is a Nunavut performing arts and Inuit cultural learning hub that we're targeting for 2019. Qaggiq is a traditional Inuit term to describe a magnificent igloo where Inuit gather to strengthen culture and celebrate life in song and story. Qaggiavuut is a traditional Inuit term to call people to come into the qaggiq that we have built together.

Qaggiavuut is a non-profit society that was founded in 2008. It works to build wellness, culture, and Inuit language in Nunavut by supporting Inuit performing artists with training and opportunities. Qaggiavuut is a winner of the Arctic Inspiration Prize for its qaggiq strategy to train Nunavut performing artists and deliver performing arts programs to youth.

Since 2016, we have supported over 300 Inuit performing artists and delivered Inuit arts programming to over 5,000 Nunavut children and youth. We assist artists to create new work in contemporary music, theatre, dance, film, and new media, and maintain traditional Inuit performing arts. Stories and songs are a connection to history and are the key to strengthening a culture and language at risk. Many Inuit performing arts were lost during the past century through colonization. Keeping them vibrant and alive today builds a sense of belonging among youth. Qaggiavuut is governed by volunteers and raises funding to deliver Inuit performing arts programming in Nunavut.

Qaggiavuut has advocated for an Inuit performing arts space for a decade. Last year, on Canada Day, we began a campaign to lobby governments, fundraise, consult, and plan for Qaggiq, an Inuit performing arts and cultural learning hub.

Cultural hubs are a great way to focus resources and bring together different disciplines in order to strengthen the creative sector. Qaggiavuut is interested in the way that a hub can build the Inuit language and culture through the performing arts and the technical and management fields of the arts. We believe there are three key pillars for a creative hub in Nunavut, where the vast majority of artists are Inuit, and over 80% of the people are Inuit.

A Nunavut creative hub must, one, involve Inuit artists in all aspects and be focused on meeting the needs of the artists. Two, it must promote and strengthen Inuit language and culture through training and presentation. Three, it must provide interdisciplinary collaboration between artists and the technical and management fields of the performing arts and other sectors, including businesses, visual and media arts, elders, and educators.