Canadian Heritage Committee on April 19th, 2018

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

You're the third witness who has come before us with some issues with respect to the CRA. I would certainly be interested in hearing more specifically what those issues are with the CRA and whether or not there are some recommendations we can make with respect to that.

[Andrew Mosker]

If I may, I have a second example that relates specifically to the blending of the non-profit world and the for-profit world within the music space specifically.

Traditionally, non-profit music organizations were largely funded through philanthropy and grants [Technical difficulty--Editor] various elements of Canadian Heritage, as split typically from what we would describe as the for-profit industry or the music industry. Often that was broken down between classical music, jazz, and world music on the non-profit side and pop, hip hop, rock, and indie music on the commercial side.

I find that those people, those different spaces at Canadian Heritage, often don't speak with each other. Very often they work in very different spaces. We have gotten to know them both, because at the National Music Centre, we're an all-music organization, blending both the non-profit side of helping artists to develop their skills as artists, if they play classical music or if they're original singer-songwriters, and also working on the industry side within spaces around FACTOR and the [Technical difficulty--Editor] that look after those within Canadian Heritage. What we have found is that artists, no matter what music they play, are trying to build small businesses effectively and build careers around themselves.

I have found there has often been, within those two spaces, two separate cultures within Canadian Heritage that operate very differently. My own view, because I've worked in the music business now for over 20 years, is that there's a narrowing of the gap between how artists make a living within the traditional side of the performing arts in music, whether it's classical or world music, and on the commercial side if you're playing in an indie band and you're touring Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I'm going to have to cut you off there. You might be able to continue with someone else along the way.

We are going on to Mr. Van Loan, please.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thank you.

I just have one question for the Canadian Film Centre. You talked a lot about the importance of connecting to your community. I know from the map that you are in a largely residential area. What does the Canadian Film Centre do as an organization to reach out to and connect with the surrounding community so that you get that connection to community? It's certainly something we've heard a lot about from other witnesses as being very important.

[Ana Serrano]

This is partially why I led with the notion that although place is important, it's really your impact as services and networks across a variety of spaces that could be construed as public as well.

In terms of what the film centre does in that particular community, we certainly have quite a number of open-type policy initiatives where the community itself is welcome to come to our space. We run a number of different programs through our film and television department that welcome some of the students who go to schools in that community. That is just par for the course of being a good neighbour and a good cultural centre in a neighbourhood.

More important is the type of community-based work we do. For example, through our digital media department, the technology start-up products that we create can be deployed in other sectors and in other communities, and we can actually distribute such deployment in channels that are embedded in communities.

A good example of this is the work that we are doing with the Toronto Public Library system and its various community partners, like the Parkdale economic community development initiative, which is working on a number of different community service-based activities, including the development of a land trust, community gardens, etc. We are pairing that type of domain subject-matter work embedded in the Parkdale community with virtual reality experience productions that would highlight and provide more enhancement and understanding of the impact of such services in that community through the use of virtual reality and augmented reality. These types of experiences then get distributed through the Toronto Public Library system, including the public library.

On May 8, a Jane's Walk is happening that is being run by the Toronto Public Library system. Community residents can take a tour of the Parkdale neighbourhood. We are using AR-based technology created by our startup Albedo Informatics to showcase and highlight how the community has changed over the years using augmented reality on mobile devices. That is the first-ever AR-enhanced Jane's Walk in that particular neighbourhood.

It's this kind of intervention that I think creates the notion of these types of distributed network hubs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

Mr. Eglinski, please.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I would like to thank both of our presenters this morning.

Mr. Mosker, you talked about relatively new organizations starting in 2016 that are part-museum, part-live theatre, and then the tech work and the educational aspect. Are you working outside the Calgary area with any other organizations? You call yourself a “national” music centre. Are you working with different groups across Canada, providing help and assistance and stuff like that?

[Andrew Mosker]

We invented the National Music Centre charitable organization, and we've been doing work here in Calgary for well over 20 years. We invented the brand of the National Music Centre.

What we've done to fulfill this national mandate is we have about half a dozen partners who we work with across the country, both in the non-profit and the for-profit space. In the non-profit space, we work with several other presenters. We have some emerging partnerships with other venues in Toronto. It's not public yet, because we're still working on the details of what those are.

Once our programming gets up to a certain place, we would like to be able to present some of our programming in Toronto and Montreal. We have relationships in Quebec, as well, that we're working with, because we're a bilingual organization.

Also, on the for-profit side, we're the home of the Canadian Music Hall of Fame, the Canadian Country Music Hall of Fame, and the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame. Those are music industry associations that are all headquartered in Toronto. Their physical halls of fame live here in our building at the National Music Centre at Studio Bell.

Those partnerships took years to develop. When an industry association recognizes artists, they get inducted at particular ceremonies. Those artists are recognized through an exhibit here at the National Music Centre, and the artists themselves actually come to visit the space, spend time at the space [Technical difficulty—Editor] through this region here in Canada.

It's a great national partnership. There's also a live streaming component that we've created for all of our international audiences, which we're starting to develop slowly. Partnerships are how National Music Centre is national.

The second way is that through music industry and non-profit artist development, we bring artists from across Canada to work in our studios. We have very unique recording studio environments here that encompass 450 years' worth of working music technologies. We had an artist, Émile Bilodeau, who was here last week from Quebec. Safia Nolin, another well-known Quebec artist, is coming here to record an album in about two weeks. We've had artists from [Technical difficulty—Editor] as well.

That's another way in which we fulfill our national mandate.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

How much time do we have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Twenty seconds.

We will continue with Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

As I have been lucky enough to visit the National Music Centre in Calgary, I note that you actually have very similar names but very different missions, if I'm not mistaken.

The Canadian Film Centre and the National Music Centre have a lot in common. However, the two organizations are completely different. It is true that a lot of artists like to use the vintage equipment.

that you can find at the National Music Centre. I'll get back to you, Andrew, a tad later.

Ms. Serrano, your organization somehow brings master classes to various interveners, who actually register and pay tuition fees to access the various themes that I can see on your website. Is that correct?

[Ana Serrano]

Yes. We have postgraduate training programs, or residency programs as we call them. We have large endowments of scholarship to allow a diversity, and to ensure that anyone with talent can still come to the Canadian Film Centre. Those folks, essentially, get the benefit of an international roster of masters in their field, and learn from them.

We also have programs that are specifically tied to the industry itself even more directly. For example, our television program is such that a show runner comes in and has a TV show in mind to produce, and then the writers that are part of this program all write the bible with this person, with the intention that this particular program will end up on Netflix. Indeed, that has happened many times, with Orphan Black, with Travellers, and a variety of shows. Many of these writers who helped in the program end up becoming paid writers for the show.

We're really closing the gap between the talent that goes through the doors and the industry that we're building through this talent. In our digital media space, we have a totally different model, which is really to run an accelerator, where we provide investments into technology companies and help support the growth of these companies.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

So is it fair to say that you're comparable to l'inis in Montreal, and if l'inis were to make a special collaboration with Netflix to create its next show, it would be very close?

[Ana Serrano]

We have collaborated with l'inis for many years, and this is a great segue to the value of a distributed network. About 10 years ago, we collaborated with l'inis and the Banff Centre for the Arts and its Banff New Media Institute. For five years we helped accelerate talent into the digital media space and projects across these three regions, and the talent ended up creating unparalleled peer networks. These peer networks that developed between Quebec and Ontario, and between Alberta, Quebec, and Ontario have grown to be even stronger, and we've seen the types of collaborations even to this day.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay. Considering the supposed investments of $25 million to come from Netflix in the Quebec region, we may hope they will do something with l'inis.

Mr. Mosker, we were saying earlier that the people in Charlottetown are lucky to have someone like Alanna Jankov. I would say the same about the people in Calgary, who are lucky to have someone like Andrew Mosker. You have really invented a new model of an outreach centre. The last time I was there, I had the opportunity to see all the vintage equipment on display there that can still be used. It also gives a lot of life to real production.

It is true that I saw a lot of young people involved in production and playing instruments, not all the instruments and perhaps not the vintage instruments.

We could have just as easily met with you when we were studying museums. Your centre is like a new museum that does a lot of cultural outreach. It is a sort of cultural neighbourhood. In any event, it is located in a cultural neighbourhood, that is for sure. In a way, it is a kind of cultural hub because people come to you in order to create.

Is there a particularly local dimension? Can local artists drop by and see and use your equipment?

[Andrew Mosker]

Absolutely. The National Music Centre seeks to create opportunities not only for local and regional artists, but also for artists from everywhere in Canada. In terms of the live programming we present here, I feel that last year, [technical difficulties] participated in the local events here at the National Music Centre. Local artists are very involved in our programs.

In addition, we have our artists in residence program, which is just in its early stages because it has been in place for only 22 months. Artists from all over Canada come to see our studios, which are really unique in the country, and to use our vintage equipment, which is a source of inspiration for them professionally.

As I told you two weeks ago, we have established a partnership with ADISQ in Quebec, whereby the new artist who wins the Félix de la Révélation prize each year is received as an artist in residence with us. Last year, Émile Bilodeau came here to record a new album. It was the first time in his life that he had been to Alberta. It really inspired him to see a recording studio with vintage equipment here in Canada. He wrote and recorded eight songs in three days. He came back to give a show before a Calgary audience for the first time. On Facebook Live, he talked about his experience recording his songs here. His fans everywhere, in Quebec and around the world, have a good idea of the way in which he created a new album here at the National Music Centre in Calgary.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Even the Canadian producer Daniel Lanois would be excited to use your vintage equipment, that is for sure.

There is one interesting aspect that I think can come up as we talk about cultural hubs. This is the multiplier affect of investments from the city, and perhaps the province and from Canada, which heightened the enthusiasm and have allowed you to obtain a lot of private funding. It is exceptional. I do not always see the link between cultural hubs and your experience. There are a number of them but it is as if they are in another dimension.

When the state provides start-up capital, is that not a major incentive for the private sector?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Forgive me for interrupting you, but your time is up.

However, if you want to present something,

to put in some kind of submission afterwards, please feel free to do so.

We will perhaps have a little time left to hear other questions

The floor now goes to Mr. Di Iorio.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, Ms. Serrano and Mr. Mosker. Thank you for your quality presentations. I also acknowledge the excellence of the service you are providing to the country.

I have three closely interrelated questions, which I'll ask of both of you, and you'll see why I asked the three of them together.

First, do you have a model elsewhere in the world that you're looking to or at, or are considering?

Second, what is it that you aspire to be? Could you give us an indication of where you believe your organization will be a few years from now, or even a decade from now.

Third, how could the Canadian government help you achieve that vision? With this third question, I don't only mean with money. It could be other types of support.

Mr. Mosker, you referred to the CRA. If it is getting rid of red tape or other cumbersome elements that often impede your progress, please feel free to refer to that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Is somebody going put up their hand to go first?

Ms. Serrano again.

[Ana Serrano]

Right now we have a very strong partnership with cultural services at the French embassy and, as such, I've been touring France quite a bit and being hosted by the Institut Français. I've seen many interesting models in France for how they support these kinds of interdisciplinary networks.

The one I recently visited, which I thought was really quite remarkable, was a small town outside of Paris called Laval. It had decided about 20 years ago to focus on really becoming well-known as a place that would understand, innovate, produce work, and convene anyone interested in virtual reality. That was 20 years ago.

As many of you on the committee know, it's the hottest thing right now. Fast-forward 20 years, and they have an incubator and an internationally renowned conference. They have scientific labs situated in the region. They have a bunch of start-ups. They have creators and artists who they're starting to integrate into their space. They have a cultural kind of facility for theatrical and immersive art presentations. All of this is in a tiny little town outside of Paris that most Parisians don't even know about. What that really represents to me is this idea of what I was talking about from the get-go, which is that the cultural hub does not need to look like what we think a cultural hub looks like. It doesn't need to look a gentrified downtown Toronto space with multi-use buildings, etc., although those are beautiful spaces to live in. They're great spaces to hang out in, and certainly they have contributed to the quality of life and to the quality of the arts and culture in a city.

However, I think what we're now finding as globalization takes hold is that we can start to reinvent our notion of what a cultural hub can be. I think it is about removing our biases between urban and rural areas. We need to remove biases about what disciplines and/or sectors make more sense to be part of a hub. I think this kind of mixing of things is really the most important part.

Then, most importantly, the role of an international network is really critical, because the world is getting much smaller and the opportunities for Canadians are really limited by the tiny market that we have. So striving for excellence and quality of content, of thinking, of talent, and of work, and supporting that across networks and then selling it globally is really what we aspire to do.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Mr. Mosker.

[Andrew Mosker]

In terms of successful models that we've seen around the world, I've been very fortunate. I've been involved with this organization for well over 20 years. Before we built National Music Centre, I spent 10 years looking around the world at various models. The reason the National Music Centre created a sort of a tri-model was the integration that was happening as a result of technology and this convergence, particularly in music, that continues. It's not over yet.

I'm going to build on France, again. There are lots of great facilities in France that certainly inspired the National Music Centre. La Cité de la musique is a wonderful facility—if you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it—and le Centre Pompidou, as well [Technical difficulty--Editor] brings together many disciplines in a very creative way. Those are big facilities.

Getting down to much more granular level in neighbourhoods, I think that the Americans particular, as a result of trying to renew inner cities after the Second World War, have spawned this idea of looking at how we bring life back from the suburbs to the inner city. That's especially the case in the south, in Tennessee and in various parts of Mississippi.... I've spent a lot of time down in those areas looking at what Memphis, Nashville, and Austin, further to the west, have done vis-a-vis music and their cities, and learned a lot from this convergence of [Technical difficulty--Editor]. These were, in many ways, I think, a huge inspiration for East Village in Calgary and the National Music Centre. For example, if you haven't seen our facility, it's built in and around an historic hotel called the King Eddy Hotel, which was Calgary's home of the blues for many years.

There's a similar model in South Memphis, with the Stax label, an R and B label that existed from the 1960s to the mid 1970s in a really downtrodden part of south Memphis. They rebuilt that studio and built a museum and a charter school around it. Instead of putting it in the high density tourist area of Beale Street, they put it back on the original [Technical difficulty ] to be a catalyst for the neighbourhood to bring people together through the power of music and education. It's worked. Twenty years later, there are new developments around there. It's a safer place to go and visit.

Those were big inspirations to us on a more micro level. I think everyone looks at Austin and Nashville in the music space and wonders what lessons can be learned and transported to wherever you live. In the case of Calgary, we're certainly looking at ways that we could bring tech space, innovation, and music together and live and build a new ecosystem or add to the existing ecosystem here in Calgary. Those were our models.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

That's good.

Mr. Mosker, I'll cut you off right there, because that's all of your time for that round of questioning, but we do have time, if there's an interest, for a three-minute round, if people have quick questions they want to ask.

I know I heard interest from Mr. Shields in asking one more question.

You have three minutes, if you can.