Evidence of meeting #105 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Okay.
You talked about staff turnover. Is this part of the operational funding challenge you have?
9:15 a.m.
General Director, Centre Materia
Yes. That is one of our biggest challenges, since we constantly have to train staff. Given the low wages, they are often young people who are recent graduates with no experience. The turnover rate is slowing down our development. In addition, it becomes difficult to motivate staff and develop a passion for building truly innovative projects when those people have to work two or three jobs.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Thank you very much.
I would like to welcome Ms. Hardcastle to our committee for today.
You have the floor for seven minutes.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
It's a very intriguing discussion. Thank you for your input.
What I would like to do to use my time most effectively, because you know I have seven minutes, is to give you a couple of questions so that you have time to ponder them while other people are answering.
I basically want to get back to the idea that was touched on in Mr. Moss's recommendation with respect to where funding should go for operational programs. Madame Ouellette spoke about the issue of actual physical structures and having some consistency in being able to pay a hydro bill. Then Mr. Sandiford spoke about that organic development.
What is the government's role? There is access. There is a regulatory environment through which we are fostering a blockbuster culture. What should we be doing? What is the best way for us to be approaching this and working with territories, with provinces, and with cities, in your experience so far, so that we move forward?
9:15 a.m.
Co-Executive Director, La Piscine
[Technical difficulty—Editor] as well but I think we have to think hyperlocally and we have to respond to what is actually happening on the ground. It's clear from what we've seen through this study and here today that there is no one-size-fits-all for anything, and there is no one reality.
From my experience creating and managing Culture Days for nine years, I have a sense of what's going on in this country through the lens of about 850 Canadian villages and towns and major urban centres. There is no common link in terms of what the local reality is—around who the leadership is, around the convergences around cultural assets, around the actual local culture. I think what the federal government needs to be particularly attentive to is what other hyperlocal realities there are in order to really understand where it can intervene in a coherent way, and of course, in collaboration with the other levels of government and with partners who are around the table, because the partners come in all different shapes and sizes, as we have seen.
9:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Creative PEI
I would completely echo that.
Just to follow up on what David was saying, I completely agree with him. I think the mechanism for this is to have partner meetings to find the relevant person in the provincial, municipal, or territorial government and a few of the key other partners in the ecosystem and have regular meetings to figure out where we are going and how we can do these things better together. I think working in isolation is going to be a problem for us. Working together is going to lead to success—again, with the focus being hyperlocal.
9:20 a.m.
General Director, Centre Materia
I think the government can trust community stakeholders. They are creators, they are inventive and find creative solutions. Cultural districts often form organically, at first. Artists get together in low-cost locations. At some point, those groups attract people, stimulate the cultural offer and contribute to the development of cities and provinces.
I think that supporting projects under way could take things further and, most importantly, help people who have been investing efforts for a number of years. That does not go against new projects, types of groups or cultural centres. Trusting stakeholders, regardless of the type of group we are talking about, is already a major step.
April 26th, 2018 / 9:20 a.m.
David Santelli Chair, Board of Directors, La Piscine
I would like to add a comment.
We are talking about cultural centres, which are focal points, but they are also elements for promoting culture and its stakeholders. It was mentioned earlier that funding for a project or a program is often related to specific approaches. There is little recognition of the need for funding for animation, collaboration and coordination of those ecosystems, be they organic, structured or semi-structured. It is difficult because we are talking about intangibles. Program development or guidance formulas must involve an understanding of that need if we want to grow cultural ecosystems as cultural districts or centres.
I think this would be an important element to consider.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Let's go back to the first recommendation you had, Mr. Moss, with regard to the support for that kind of innovation if we're talking hyperlocal. You probably heard Mr. Sandiford's response about having regular meetings that can help foster the understanding that a federal regime would need to fund somehow. What do you think that could look like, just off the top? Was that what you meant by supporting innovation?
9:20 a.m.
Co-Executive Director, La Piscine
No. We think about it from an organizational point of view. Today's cultural and heritage organizations are designed to not necessarily be able to optimize their missions in today's world, based on cultural participation factors such as fostering the blockbuster culture, as you mentioned, and these types of things.
I am going to let my colleague speak to this, because his area of expertise is in the accompaniment of creating this value through cultural innovation.
9:20 a.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, La Piscine
Fundamentally, what is important when we are talking about animating ecosystems where it would be possible to showcase cultural innovation in a much more extensive way, is to understand that an artist is, first and foremost, engaged in an entrepreneurial endeavour. Artists are also innovators, by their very nature, because they are engaged in experience, research and experimentation endeavours with the public.
It is perfectly possible to increase the harnessing of that value. That is sort of the role we have given ourselves—not only to guide those approaches to bring diversity or model hybridization, but also to bring that value into other spheres that could than be applied to the artistic world. The impact may be artistic, social, economic or even civic. Our role is to be able to guide those approaches and increase that general intellectual property.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank everybody for their great presentations. One of my questions has already been asked, so I'll try to be a little creative with my questions.
I want to apologize to you, Ms. Ouellette. I missed your presentation. From the little I've read about your organization, it seems that you've done some of your projects internationally. My question to you is, how important is it for hubs to collaborate internationally? How does it impact the learning and the creation process? Is there some way the federal government can be helpful in this area?
9:25 a.m.
General Director, Centre Materia
It’s always important to work on promoting arts and crafts, whether locally or internationally. We must transport our culture and the expertise of the people who make it. Supporting projects internationally allows people to grow their businesses. As we have said, each artist is self-employed. We are talking about small businesses, which sometimes have employees.
So it's a question of helping them with exporting. It is sometimes difficult for artists to take objects out of Quebec or Canada; there are many steps to take. As an organization, we can do it. We are reducing the barriers for them to create or manufacture valuable pieces for export.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you so much.
The more you explain about La Piscine, the more I think of our Centre for Social Innovation in Toronto. It sounds very similar. They have a building and then within that building, there are a lot of social innovators. There are artists. There are creators. I co-founded an environmental group, and I held a space there as well. It's really a wonderful space to bring groups together.
I was a little surprised to hear that La Piscine is the only one of its kind in Montreal, just because it feels like a place that would have a lot of different types of spaces that actually promote this type of innovation. What were your specific challenges in trying to develop the proposal for La Piscine, and how do you think the federal government could have helped?
9:25 a.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, La Piscine
Compared to the Centre for Social Innovation, there are spaces in Montreal, particularly the Esplanade, that play that role. I think that La Piscine’s specificity lies in relationships with the clients it serves, that is to say the world of arts, culture and creativity. It is therefore really specialized compared to the mission of the Centre for Social Innovation, which is very broad and cross-cutting in this environment.
I would say that the main challenge we had to face was to demonstrate to the cities that the share of those companies is still significant. They generate more than 7% of the GDP in the Montreal area, but we had to work to gain recognition for the major role of artists and cultural entrepreneurs in Montreal.
I come back to the question you asked. Basically, the reality is that La Piscine is internationally recognized because, by definition, its entrepreneurs are born with a global vision. We do not often realize how important these entrepreneurs are in Montreal, because most of them are better known internationally than they are in Montreal. We have so many examples.
In this hyper-local model, the challenge is to be able to simultaneously create a supply at the local level and to have an international presence, to work nationally and internationally with ecosystems, in Toronto and across the country, and also with other authors of creative works, because there is currently an international movement, of that kind, which is in the process of being generated.
9:30 a.m.
Co-Executive Director, La Piscine
If I may just clarify one point, what we're proposing here is that the site, the Rodier building, be the first site entirely dedicated to cultural and creative entrepreneurship. It's not that La Piscine is pretending to be necessarily the only one of its kind in our city.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Okay, thank you. That's an important distinction.
Montreal is a very diverse community. I lived there for four years and I loved it. Can you tell me what you're doing to make sure your community will reflect the diversity of the wider community? It could be either one of you from La Piscine.
9:30 a.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, La Piscine
The interesting thing is that the idea behind La Piscine was moved forward with the participation of two colleges, Dawson College and the Cégep du Vieux-Montréal, which are already a symbol of this diversity. They are the two largest colleges in Montreal, one anglophone and one francophone. By definition, I would say that the essence of La Piscine was built in line with the logic of Montreal's bilingualism. This is a key aspect because the entrepreneurship we want to serve is being created and exists in this diversity, which therefore makes it one of the building blocks. The neighbourhood in which we are located is a neighbourhood that has some richness and a historical past in terms of its diversity.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Sandiford, I agree with you that creativity just has to be given the space to be able to evolve, and that changes over time. I often worry that, as part of this study, there is a danger that we will over-regulate or over-legislate. It really is a concern of mine, because we truly want to be helpful beyond just providing operating funds. I know we do more funding for programming in addition to infrastructure.
I've heard loud and clear, not just from your group but from many, about the importance of collaboration and bringing groups together, not only within the same city but across the country and even internationally. We need to be able to help evolve, very naturally, our different cultural hubs.
I know I'm over time right now, but I just wanted to say I appreciate your comment about that, and it's very much top of mind for us. Thanks again for all your great presentations.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Thank you to everyone on the panel. That was really interesting.
The groups shared some diverse ideas and experiences.
We are going to suspend briefly while we bring in our next panel. We have a panel of four coming in.
Thank you everyone.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
All right. We're going to start again.
We have four groups of witnesses. One is missing, but I'm hoping they will be here after we get started.
I'd first like to welcome Kasey Dunn and Victoria Velenosi from Brick and Mortar, in my own community.
It's good to see you here.
We also have Vincent Roy, from EXMURO arts publics, and we are waiting for the representatives from La Filature.
We also have with us, via video conference, The Theatre Centre, with Franco Boni.
Because of technical issues, it usually works if we start with the video conference first. Please start with your presentation, Mr. Boni. Thank you.
9:40 a.m.
Franco Boni Artistic Director, The Theatre Centre
Thank you so much for the opportunity to share a bit of my story and The Theatre Centre's story.
I want to begin by showing you this image of the building that our theatre is in. It's a former Carnegie library in the heart of Queen West in Toronto, which is an artists' neighbourhood. I refer back to Jane Jacobs: new ideas need old buildings. This is an old building that was renovated about four years ago with the support of all levels of government. We had been in the neighbourhood and serving artists for 25 years, but it wasn't until we moved into this building that we saw our responsibility being much greater.
The neighbourhood was gentrifying. There were many condominiums, with thousands of people moving into the neighbourhood, and there was a real loss of public space in the community. There is a park, and that's about it. A lot of the other establishments in the neighbourhood are areas for transactions—for drinking, for restaurants—but there is hardly any public space, so the responsibility for The Theatre Centre to be a public space, a space for the community to gather, was extremely important. It was central to the concept of moving forward in our public programming but also to our ethos, to asking the question: what can a theatre be and who is it for?
I want to move forward with some of the slides on just generally who we are and our role within the community as a research and development hub for the community, serving artists across the country. Moving forward, it's about finding inspiration: what is the purpose? What is the purpose of a public space? It's about the importance of that. I just want to draw your attention, I guess, to one thing that I say quite a bit, which is that we built a theatre, but in fact what we're doing is nurturing a public space, and we do that every day. We're not open only at showtimes. We open at 8 a.m. We have a café that has free Wi-Fi and that welcomes people in. We're a third space.
What I want to do is just to go through some of our programs around our development programs, which are residency and the Progress Festival.
I'm not sure how much time I have, so I'm moving through stuff quite quickly.
9:45 a.m.
Artistic Director, The Theatre Centre
Okay. Sorry. I have a little more time than I thought.
For me, on the concept of community hubs, we're now called a community hub, but it's not something that we proclaimed. It's not something we said. We didn't say, “Oh, we're a community hub.” We've built trust and respect, and with a generosity in how we create and move through our programs, that's really how we developed ourselves as a community hub. You can't just say “here” in a community and plunk down something that suddenly is a community hub. These things take years. The Theatre Centre has been in this neighbourhood for over 20 years.
I want to talk through some of our programs, so that we can move through the slides all the way through to slide 24, for the sake of time, because it gives you a sense of our Theatre Centre café/bar, which really is the heart of our space. We host a community meal in that space every month. We have a “baker-in-residence”. We hired a local baker who makes and sells fresh baked goods. Everything is local. Our Objectorium in the café sells crafts by local craftspeople. We have a program that animates us. As shown on the next slide, every corner of the building is filled with art, so these are chance encounters that the public has with art. Our library gallery, which is a nod to the fact that we were a Carnegie library, is our free library. We have a gallery upstairs allowing for a multi-arts venue.
I often say that the space itself is a playground. I think of it in that way. I want the public to think of it as a playground. We have light boxes on the outside, where we can speak to the public. Thousands and thousands of people go by on Queen Street. Shown in this slide is a sign where we encouraged people in the community to vote in the election. We hosted an election party.
Also, we'll go down to, say, 36 Lisgar, to Active 18, a local neighbourhood association that meets in our space quite regularly. We have a condo project, which is a program where we're working with the residents of one condominium in the building to try to activate and to ask them what they need from us, what they need from a theatre. It took some time to really get things going, but now we're creating a bond.
I will say that what I often talk about is performing yourself in civic life. What I mean by that is that we all play a part. We know that when community members are involved in the arts, they're more likely to vote and more likely to be involved in civic planning, so what are the spaces in these neighbourhoods that allow for this kind of civic activity to go on?
Another project is that we had a newcomer program—