Evidence of meeting #111 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was copyright.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dominic Trudel  Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois de la musique
Graham Henderson  President and Chief Executive Officer, Music Canada
Andrew Morrison  The Jerry Cans
Lyette Bouchard  Chair, Canadian Private Copying Collective
Lisa Freeman  Executive Director, Canadian Private Copying Collective
Alan Willaert  Vice-President, Canada, Canadian Federation of Musicians
Benoit Henry  Chief Executive Officer, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale
Jean-Pierre Caissie  Administrator, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale

10:30 a.m.

Administrator, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale

Jean-Pierre Caissie

We could talk about 8-track cassettes too, because they are in vogue again, I believe.

We are talking about discoverability, but we can also talk about Canadian quotas. Do Canadian quotas apply to services like those provided by Spotify and others, even YouTube?

These days, discoverability can work with metadata and geolocation. I believe those two can go hand-in-hand and can offer Canadian content to Canadians. I think that, since the 1970s, it has been more or less Canadian cultural policy to provide Canadians with the works of Canadian artists.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

How is your strike going to end up?

10:35 a.m.

Administrator, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale

Jean-Pierre Caissie

I will keep you posted.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

We're now going to Julie Dzerowicz.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you very much.

There's so much here. I'm really thankful to all of you for being here today. I want to get a little bit more in terms of some of the recommendations.

Ms. Freeman, in an answer to one of my colleague's questions, you said that there was something that needed to be slightly modified. Do you know what that exact modification is that would make it equal to the French version and clarify things? Can you be more specific on that so that we can make a more definitive recommendation around it?

10:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Private Copying Collective

Lisa Freeman

Yes. In fact, we are developing—and would be happy to share with the committee if it's not too early a stage—some draft language. Essentially, the issue is that the private copying regime is focused on audio recording media in English. The court's interpretation of the term “media” excludes devices or recording media embedded in devices. Although they could understand the desire, the rationale, the logic, in doing so, they felt that word ”medium” was too restrictive. Again, in French it's “support” which is a much broader term and could certainly be interpreted to encompass both. Again, that's the minor....

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

That's great. If you could submit it, that would be helpful to us, for sure. Then we could be helpful around that in terms of clarifying and making recommendations.

Ms. Bouchard, you also suggested that the interim four-year fund of $40 million per year around private copying would be very helpful. If by a miracle we were able to do something within the next year, how do you see that working? How do we distribute it? Do you have any details in terms of how that might work?

10:35 a.m.

Chair, Canadian Private Copying Collective

Lyette Bouchard

Actually, the fund could certainly come from the spectrum auctions, for example. That was an idea put forward by the Liberals in the 2011 election. It is a solution, but it is only a temporary one. We want it to be considered, because we really feel that we need a legislative solution.

The interim fund could therefore come from spectrum auctions, for example. It would be paid to the Canadian Private Copying Collective. We would distribute the royalties in the same way as we do at the moment to the creators, meaning the artists, the performers, the producers and the songwriters.

10:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Private Copying Collective

Lisa Freeman

If I could just add, the Private Copying Collective is itself an umbrella collective that was created by the rights holders' collectives. In effect, it is the chosen vehicle by the rights holders. The systems that have been set up have been developed by the rights holders. As for the most efficient and fairest means of distributing any private copying royalties, the decision for that should rest with the rights holders. Our members have told us that their preference would be for any fund to flow, again, through the Private Copying Collective, as it would be the most efficient and most effective way of getting the funds into the right hands.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Okay, perfect.

One of my last questions is around this section.

I, too, have been advocating with our minister to see whether there's anything we can do around the plus-70 years just to equalize it, just because we're behind. We're still at life-plus-50 years, and Europe and the U.S. are at life-plus-70 years for the copyright of musical works. My understanding is that can only be a legislative change. I kept on thinking we should just equalize it right now and then work on everything else moving forward.

To your knowledge, is there no other way we can actually equalize it in a quick way without making a legislative change?

10:35 a.m.

Chair, Canadian Private Copying Collective

Lyette Bouchard

I'm not sure we're the right organization to answer this question precisely. Maybe my colleagues here are.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

It's okay. Unless you guys have some other way, I think it's a legislative change.

10:35 a.m.

Chair, Canadian Private Copying Collective

Lyette Bouchard

We can check and get back to you, if you want.

May 29th, 2018 / 10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

It's okay. For me, it was something top of mind. I have a few other questions.

We had our department officials here in our last session. They said that all the changes around remuneration are not necessarily legislative. Some of them are non-legislative things that we can actually do. They gave an example around blockchain. I wonder whether there were some other things that are outside of the legislative option that we should be looking at in terms of being more supportive around remuneration for artists. It's a general question, just to put it out there, to see whether there's anybody who has any thoughts to contribute to that.

Does anybody have any thoughts on that?

10:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Private Copying Collective

Lisa Freeman

Certainly everyone in the music industry is interested in blockchain and in any technology that allows greater control and greater ability for rights holders to authorize or prohibit to license to monetize their work. We at the Private Copying Collective represent something that needs to come in to clean up what can't be authorized and licensed. While there remains any quantity of uncontrollable activity, through any technology, artists should still remunerated, hence the creation internationally of the private copying regimes. But, absolutely, our member collectives are actively investigating blockchain and how that and other technologies can further their ability to license directly.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Okay, thank you.

Do you have something to add, Mr. Henry?

10:40 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale

Benoit Henry

Very generally, I would say that the legislative and regulatory framework in Canada in recent years has leaned towards consumers at the expense of creators and that we need the legislative and regulatory framework to be balanced.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

That's helpful.

Do you want to add something, Mr. Willaert?

10:40 a.m.

Vice-President, Canada, Canadian Federation of Musicians

Alan Willaert

Yes, I do.

One of the other things that is moving forward in the world is a central database. In the past when musicians made a recording, there was an IRSC code attached to it. It went nowhere. There was no way to track the musicians on those recordings from one country to another or from one company to another.

Now, the collective management organizations and their association, SCPA, which is based in Paris, have a central database that the members of SCPA can feed into and then share the data from one country to another as to who the musicians are on any given recording and who the beneficiaries are, so that they can be properly remunerated. There is progress in that regard.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Perfect. That's very helpful. Thank you.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

That brings this meeting to an end.

My heartfelt thanks to all the witnesses, because this has been really interesting and has helped us greatly in understanding what we have to do in our study.

With that, I'd say this meeting is over. We're adjourned.