Evidence of meeting #118 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was back.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
September 18th, 2018 / 11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
I thank the members of the committee for their confidence.
Mr. Adams, when I was 19, I went to Old Orchard Beach, in Maine, on a motorcycle. It was 1984, and the song Summer of '69 was being played; it was very good. Thank you for being here today.
Mr. Adams, you said that one way for us as Canadians to reinvest in our artists would be to return the ownership of their copyright to them after 25 years.
What triggered this involvement for you to be here? You mentioned the next generation.
What made you realize that the situation makes no sense anymore in Canada and that we should evolve? Can you explain your motivation in bringing this forward today?
11:45 a.m.
Artist, As an Individual
I think it's fairness. Canada is seen around the world as this beacon of safety. I think we can do better. I've been working in this business for a long time. I see how other countries behave and how they treat people, and I think the future really is.... It's so difficult today for artists and songwriters to really get paid. Anything that can help them gain control over their work going forward—even if it is in harmony with other people so that it is symbiotic, so that both publishers and artists are working together to move forward instead of it being one-sided—I think would be fair.
Who would think up the idea that 25 years after you die you get to own your house? I'm sorry, but I just don't think that's fair.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
You began your career several years ago.
Given the advent of social media, is it more difficult today for an artist? I know that this is a broad topic. At the time, you could make income as an artist from the sale of CDs. There were cassettes as well. Today, we have streaming and platforms.
Mr. Adams, could you share your thoughts on this topic, since the committee is going to be studying this?
11:45 a.m.
Artist, As an Individual
It's a bigger question, as your colleague was talking about.
I'll be honest with you: it was never easy. In the beginning for me it wasn't an easy thing to become recognized. As Daniel mentioned, many authors got kicked out the door. It happened to me here in Canada as well. People were just not interested. It's an artist's legacy. You have to go back.
In fact, when I signed my first contract, it was for $1, because legally in Canada, to make a contract happen you have to have a dollar. After a couple of years, I said to the president of the record company, “You know, I signed that contract for $1. You never sent it.”
He said, “I'll send it.” I have it on my wall. I have the $1 cheque. I never cashed it.
That's what it comes down to. You sign for a pittance in the beginning. If you're lucky and if you have a machine behind you, you can create a lot of interest. Yes, social media is a very big aspect for artists these days, but there are no guarantees and there are no guarantees in the long term of how long you're going to be there.
I've had a really blessed career, and I thank the Canadian public for that, because I've been able to continue to make music and be recognized in this country and around the world, so I'm grateful. I'm one of the few, so I'm here without having asked any of my colleagues in the business what their opinions are on this. I've come up here on my own to say I think we can do better in Canada.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
I'd like to put one last question to Mr. Gervais.
You mentioned that we know now that in the United States it's 35 years after the agreement. Do you have examples of the copyright in other countries, whether we're lagging behind them? What is it in Europe or Australia? Can you give us an overview of what's going on elsewhere?
11:45 a.m.
Daniel J. Gervais
If I may, I'd like to specify that I spoke in English in the beginning because there are lot of people who are listening to us in the United States and Europe. So, I thought it would be good to start in English. I am nevertheless very happy to show through my accent that I am a Quebecker.
11:45 a.m.
Daniel J. Gervais
To answer your question and that of Mr. Breton—both excellent questions—I would say that the big change consists in the fact that there are almost no mechanical royalties now for authors, that is to say the royalties authors got when they sold CDs. Those royalties were a very important source of income, because they were shared 50-50 between authors and publishers. Nowadays, the mechanical royalty has almost disappeared, if you compare the percentage to what it used to be. Currently, we have to deal with online streaming. There are two problems with streaming: one is the size of the pie, and the other is the share of the pie that is given to authors. These are two extremely important issues.
As for collective management, one of its advantages is that the government, through the Copyright Board of Canada for instance, can intervene with regard to the share that is given to each group of rights holders. There are indeed several models elsewhere in the world. In its1911 law, the United Kingdom had a rights reversion clause, which we have been discussing today. Unfortunately, it removed it in 1956.
In Europe, there are different mechanisms, that is to say that there is a limit on an author's power to transfer his or her rights. Some people feel that is too strong in intervention. However, the Europeans have adopted the viewpoint that in the beginning of his career, an author will sign practically anything, as Mr. Adams said. Their viewpoint is that an author is not allowed to sign any document that transfers all of his rights, because when he does so, he is in a weak position. And so European countries, particularly on the continent, limit the author's power to transfer his rights. As I said initially, Germany goes much further. It gives the author the right to take back his rights in certain situations, even if the contract does not allow it. And so, there are several ways of recognizing that an author at the beginning of his career is in a vulnerable position.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you for being here today, Mr. Adams.
This is fascinating for all of the members of the committee, as well as for all of those in the arts field who are observing our proceedings. It's rare that we have the opportunity of welcoming a real artist who pursued a career in an industry that valued talent and saw to it that artists were remunerated. That was certainly advantageous for the artists, and for many record companies like the one I worked for at the time, Sony Music Entertainment. I was well aware of all the marketing costs we recovered from artists' royalties, and so on. It was a system that, generally speaking, worked well.
I see that this year, the rights for the album Cuts Like a Knife, which everyone here knows, would in fact be cleared under the current act. You could recover the rights and the master recordings.
This is probably the main issue; is it the rights on the master recordings that are cleared, or on the publishing deal?
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
And as for the master recording, can you recover it, or do you have to buy it back? How does that work?
11:50 a.m.
Artist, As an Individual
Well, I mean, if you were in America, for example, master recordings and songs and publishing are transferable at the request of the artist or the composer after 35 years. Unless you request it, it maintains its life with the assignee. It's as simple as that.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
I think most members were here when Damhnait Doyle, from Newfoundland, came.
11:50 a.m.
Artist, As an Individual
Excuse me one second.
Daniel, would you say that's correct? Did I answer that correctly?
11:50 a.m.
Prof. Daniel J. Gervais
Authors can get their copyright. Any copyright transferred by the author you can get back after 35 years in the U.S.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
It doesn't go hand in hand. It doesn't have to be this way. I mean, the ownership of the master is with the recording company—
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
—because it paid for the production. We've seen the letters MAPL—
