Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 20th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

We will now go to our question and answer period, beginning with Dan Vandal.

Welcome to our committee.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your powerful presentations. Thank you, Clément Chartier, for being in St. Boniface on Friday morning for the commemoration of Riel's execution.

I only have five minutes, so I'm going to ask a few important questions, and I want to go back and forth.

First, this is a private member's bill that names the holiday as National Indigenous Peoples Day.

Are you suggesting, Marie, that the day should be named “the national day of truth and reconciliation”?

[Marie Wilson]

Yes, because I think if it's meant to be squeezed into National Indigenous Peoples Day as we already have it, that would be missing the point that we were trying to make.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Okay. That was clearly the point of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

You also clearly stated that your preference would be for a September day of remembrance.

[Marie Wilson]

Yes, but I want to underscore that I'm not saying “instead of”; I'm saying “in addition to”.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Yes, that's clear. Very good.

Clément Chartier, are you in accordance with a September day for truth and reconciliation?

[Clément Chartier]

Yes, I am.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

You're also in support of naming the day “the national day of truth and reconciliation”.

[Clément Chartier]

Well, that's a very broad term. As long as it's not tied to the 94 calls to action, if it's a broad statement—

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Yes.

[Clément Chartier]

—which it should be, then sure, I find nothing wrong with that particular date.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I just want to make sure there's nothing lost with the translation.

I want to go back to Marie Wilson.

We've heard a few times that if it's a statutory holiday, something is going to get lost, that we'd rather have the children in school learning about reconciliation than have a statutory holiday when they can go do something else.

In Manitoba, Remembrance Day is a holiday, and I've never experienced that.

I'm interested in your perspective on that claim by several witnesses over the last few weeks.

[Marie Wilson]

I'll tell you one thing that I've said a million times throughout the work of our commission: There is no one size fits all in any of this, and that's what happens to us in the way things get interpreted.

Where I live in the Northwest Territories, it is a statutory holiday. I also know, because I have children and grandchildren, that it is talked about in school as a way of preparing for why they have the day off. It's a way of equipping all children in the classrooms for that.

I'm talking about National Indigenous Peoples Day now. Is that what your question is related to?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

My original question was about Remembrance Day. In Manitoba, Remembrance Day is a holiday and, as your experience, we learned about Remembrance Day the day before.

During the actual day, we would go to the Legions, and—

[Marie Wilson]

Where I live it is also a holiday. It is talked about, though, in the school. It's not an either-or. I can tell you that public ceremonies are huge. People come out in a relatively small city to pack the biggest available public space there is. Whether that would happen if there was not a statutory holiday, I don't know. I think it's an issue of availability for people.

I do want to say this, though. On the question of a national day for truth and reconciliation, we have contemplated it. One thing a statutory holiday would do, at least if it applied to the public sector, is that it would enable public servants to be available to pay attention to this. I say that for two reasons.

One is because the history of it all is very tied to issues of law and public policy, to those things that were put in place, advocated, and spearheaded by public servants. I think that is part of the learning in that profession that is valuable even today.

The other thing is the experience we had with our Truth and Reconciliation Commission. In some parts of the country where we held our national events, jurisdictions—sometimes governments, sometimes major corporations, and sometimes universities and academic centres—allowed their staff a so-called “day off”. It wasn't really. I would call it more of a professional development day. They had the day, but specifically to go and attend and learn what was going on at the event, so it was qualified.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you very much.

We will now be going to Mr. Shields, Mr. Blaney, and then Mr. Yurdiga, all in five minutes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

We'll be quick.

I thank the witnesses. I do remember recently walking with an elder where a residential school had existed, and by the fields that they believed that children were buried in. It was a traumatic experience for those elders to take me there. They didn't want to go back or very close to it. It was very traumatic.

The question I have is for Mr. Clément Chartier from the Métis National Council. Could you give us your definition of Métis? Who qualifies as Métis in your definition?

[Clément Chartier]

Yes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I think it's important what you stated.

[Clément Chartier]

Okay. I'll try to be quick here.

Basically in 2002, after years of consultation, our general assembly, which is the government of the Métis nation, did come up with criteria basically of self-identification, connection to a historic Métis community, and acceptance by the Métis nation. The Métis nation is geographically situated in western Canada. It extends a bit into Ontario, a bit into the Northwest Territories, a bit into B.C., and a bit into Montana and North Dakota.

It's a distinct people with a language known as Michif. I won't go into all of that. We have that. Basically, since last year, our registry has become permanent through federal funding from budget 2017. We have our own registry. We're registering our people.

It has become a big issue, though, because there are almost hundreds of thousands of people now who are cropping up. I should say when the term “Métis” was used historically, to us it meant the Métis nation as a proper noun, as a people, a polity. Since 1982, and particularly since victories in the courts, now people are taking that term “Métis” as an adjective to mean anybody of mixed ancestry.

This would basically include pretty well all indigenous peoples in Canada, except perhaps in the Far North. It's no longer being used as a proper noun, as a people; it's being used as an adjective. You have hundreds of thousands of people cropping up now in the Maritimes, eastern Ontario, Quebec, who are claiming to be Métis because they see some potential benefit. That is a huge issue for us. It's one that Canada is going to have to deal with at some point in time.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

[Steven Blaney]

I want to thank you both for coming and for your testimony. It's very humbling.

Madam Wilson, you have spoken well, and I want to ask you this. You've held the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Have you seen a change in Canadian society since then?

Where would you like to keep moving forward in the direction of recognizing, in the same way we do for veterans, what has happened in residential schools?

[Marie Wilson]

I often say that I feel like we are inching forward. We have a long way to go.

[Steven Blaney]

Okay.