Evidence of meeting #134 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was content.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Frédérique Couette  Executive Director, Copibec
Roanie Levy  President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Copyright
Sylvia McNicoll  Author, Access Copyright
Laurent Dubois  General Manager, Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois
Suzanne Aubry  President, Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois
Wayne Long  Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Sylvie Boucher  Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, CPC
Emily Harris  President, Canadian Association of Film Distributors and Exporters
Brad Danks  Chief Executive Officer, OUTtv Network Inc.
Randy Boissonnault  Edmonton Centre, Lib.
David Yurdiga  Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC

11:35 a.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

Thank you.

Ms. Levy, would you comment?

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Wayne, I'd just point out that you have 20 seconds.

11:35 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Copyright

Roanie Levy

The only thing I will add is that what benefits creators, publishers and Canadians generally is a functioning marketplace, not handouts.

11:35 a.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

Thank you very much, everyone.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

We will continue with Ms. Boucher for seven minutes.

11:35 a.m.

Sylvie Boucher Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, CPC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

This is very interesting. I feel like I've gone back 10 years into the past when I was part of the previous government. Copyright was already being studied at the time and nothing has really changed, which is aberrant.

I'm particularly concerned by the rapid evolution of new technologies, which sometimes outpace us as legislators. Indeed, as soon as we have drafted the new Copyright Act, there could be some new technology that will cancel out the effects we were after.

How has the Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois and Copibec adapted to these new models and technologies? We all know someone in our environment who will use some work without paying a fee and without the author's knowledge.

What would you like the legislator to do to help you as much as possible while knowing that technology often now evolves faster than humans?

11:35 a.m.

General Manager, Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois

Laurent Dubois

I can try to answer.

In reality, I don't know if we have adapted. I think that for the moment, we are being hit by the disadvantages. Of course, we try to adapt.

There are two possibilities. The first is legislation and that is why we are here this morning. We think that strong laws will allow us to avoid abuse. The second avenue is education and raising the awareness of the population so that people realize that it isn't normal to use works for free. I don't know which of these two battles would be easiest and I will not prognosticate.

This morning, we are asking that the law take that evolution into account. You are correct when you say that the legislator is probably slower than the technology. That is normal. At least, here we are discussing the issue. Unfortunately, the commercial companies we refer to are not concerned about this debate; they act, they act quickly and they grab market shares. I think there are very clear elements in our recommendations that would easily apply.

11:35 a.m.

Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, CPC

Sylvie Boucher

Ms. Aubry, did you want to speak?

11:35 a.m.

President, Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois

Suzanne Aubry

I'd like to add that the free-of-charge concept has unfortunately made a lot more progress than the idea of copyright over these past few years.

11:35 a.m.

Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, CPC

11:35 a.m.

President, Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois

Suzanne Aubry

That is a very important issue. We have to educate people and teach them the opposite of what is being done, that is to say, not advocate for the free use of works. The population and educational institutions must instead understand that it takes writers a long time to create and that it requires an incredible investment of their life and talent, and that the profession will wind up disappearing if they don't receive fees and that will mean the end of works and Canadian content. It's very important that that be understood. It's all well and good to say that you want to use all of the works and that they should be free and accessible, however, in the final analysis, that free access will destroy creativity and creators. So, it's important to think about educating people about that.

Also, as Mr. Dubois was saying to you, our recommendations on digital are very clear. There are legislative ways of taking the bull by the horns and preventing this type of unfair use of the works.

11:40 a.m.

Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, CPC

Sylvie Boucher

Thank you.

11:40 a.m.

Author, Access Copyright

Sylvia McNicoll

May I say something?

I just want to say that I'm more familiar with the K-12 sector, and all this stuff about new technology really isn't filtering down to schools. We want real books in their hands, but instead I have nine grandchildren, and they come home with photocopied segments of stories—Canadian stories, Canadian-written, Canadian-illustrated—and not only that, they don't like reading. It is sloppy, crooked, crappy content. Our kids deserve more, and the licensing is easy. Technology has evolved in licensing also.

Thank you.

11:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Copibec

Frédérique Couette

I'd like to add something. As Mr. Dubois was saying, it's always difficult to adapt to new digital technologies because they change very quickly.

At Copibec, we have tried to take certain steps through SAMUEL, for instance, a mostly French platform that allows teachers and educational establishments to find online content from Quebec publishers and authors, as well as visual arts and song lyrics and music content. The objective is to give users a tool that provides easy and quick access to francophone Canada's works, stories and authors, all of it being overseen by licences rather than having people look for things for free on Google and find content and works. Each of the documents offered by SAMUEL mentions copyright and each student sees it on the paper or digital version of the document. That is important because this way we raise the awareness of young people by making them aware of the need, even in school, to obtain authorization to use a work and pay the rights holders.

11:40 a.m.

Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, CPC

Sylvie Boucher

Thank you.

11:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Copyright

Roanie Levy

May I comment?

11:40 a.m.

Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, CPC

November 29th, 2018 / 11:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Copyright

Roanie Levy

If I may add as well, there's no doubt that there is digital disruption. Every industry, every business, is going through digital disruption, and it will never end, but what is really important in the context that we are dealing with and why we are here today is not to be distracted by claims that digital is what is causing the ailment for the writers or publishers.

The fact is that content is being used, on paper and digitally, without compensation, and competing for free against your own works being used for free is something that should not have to be added on top of everything else.

11:40 a.m.

Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, CPC

Sylvie Boucher

Yes. Thank you.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Mr. Nantel now has the floor for seven minutes.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you everyone for being here with us.

It's extremely concerning to hear to what extent your current situation is precarious. I'd like to remind everyone that the former vice-chair Conservative of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, Mr. Van Loan, had clearly expressed his impression that the educational field was abusing the exception it was given by the law. His observation was very definite and to give Mr. Van Loan his due, he was very rigorous when it came to procedure. This may explain the broad offensive launched by universities; they now have to fight to maintain that interpretation which had until then been so advantageous for them.

Ms. Aubry and Mr. Dubois, you said that the educational exception was certainly the biggest problem. I also heard Ms. Levy say that we should not let digital and Internet issues distract us. It is true that they have an adverse effect on a large number of creators, including in the music and audiovisual fields.

Are there international standards we should adhere to so that our weakness in this regard will stop encouraging the piracy of Quebec or Canadian works?

11:45 a.m.

General Manager, Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois

Laurent Dubois

Yes. There is the European directive on copyright; the European Parliament decided to begin negotiations on it in September. Of course, there are measures in place to protect copyright.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

And we could draw inspiration from those measures, could we not?

11:45 a.m.

General Manager, Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois

Laurent Dubois

We could most certainly draw a lot of inspiration from them.

I'm thinking, for instance, about the current tools to systematically monitor content before it is posted online, which certain platforms use. Youtube is already doing that for music. Not everyone does this but those tools exist. So, there has to be a law to put these tools in place in an official way.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

We have to send a strong signal by saying that stealing content to the detriment of copyright is theft.