Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 11th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I'll jump in here to let you know that you have only about half a minute, but you may get a chance to revisit that with other questions.

[Monique Moreau]

I'll keep my answer very brief.

We are a survey- and research-based organization and we haven't asked that question of our membership. We don't—

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

You don't have a plan specifically, but in terms of responsibility, do you believe that you have a responsibility as an organization and as members to undertake reconciliation as a mandate?

[Monique Moreau]

We're a grassroots organization, sir, and we haven't polled our membership on that. I can't profess to speak for them on that. This is an important issue. There's no question that our members support reconciliation values. In terms of specifics, I don't have answers for that at this point.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Would you be able to provide some?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I'm sorry, but you are out of time. We will be going to Mr. Yurdiga now. I'm really trying to keep it to six minutes.

[David Yurdiga, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for participating today.

I've talked to many different groups over the past number of months. There are two lines of thought. From the younger generation, I hear about June 21 as a day of celebration, of celebrating culture, and a day of learning for the next generation. When I talk to the older generation, they say it's a day of remembrance and mourning on September 30.

Whether it's a stat holiday or not, there are two lines of thoughts here: celebration of the culture and mourning for what happened. How do we balance the two? I'm not sure who would want to answer this. Maybe I could hear from each of you on your perspectives, because we can't have both.

[Mojdeh Cox]

Thank you for that question. I can start and will of course leave room for others to comment.

I mentioned in my opening statement that we don't have to decide on either-or. If government were to provide and actually design a strategy whereby we're encouraging people in Canada to engage in celebrations, commemorations and ceremonies of honour in a way that is respectful to the communities presenting and is inviting everyday people in Canada into the fold, we could have both.

On the elimination of that sea of orange in the schools and that presence in the community, there is a risk of that happening should we have September 30 as a day for honouring truth and reconciliation but not necessarily aiming our attention fully to residential schools. From the perspective of Canada's unions, of course we will support and move forward with any day that is picked.

We're making a case for one day or the other through various rationales. One is that this is an opportunity to partner with government to say that we need a strategy. Let's design and execute a strategy that will bring everyday Canadians into the fold so that we can start changing those narratives and that perspective that is saying, yes, we can attribute these circumstances today to the legacy of colonialism, but we don't believe indigenous people should have specific rights and justice in certain areas. That has to change.

[Angela White]

I understand the question. You're right. Our younger generation believes that June 21 is the day. The older generation believes that September 30 is the appropriate time. For us, the balance is having even our youth understand what the difference is between the two. Because of colonialism, they don't actually know their own history when it comes to why things are the way they are.

For us, we already celebrate June 21. We go to the powwows and we go to the organizations. Our non-profit closes on June 21. We also participate quite closely with Ms. Webstad's Orange Shirt Day. If it truly is about indigenous celebration and taking back what we once lost, I think that if we do come up with a collaborative plan with regard to taking back our culture on June 21—with an actual session on how we can unroll it across to September 30 and an education period going on up to that point—then we can have the best of both worlds. Not only are you actually celebrating June 21, but you're actually providing the curriculum and the history that need to be put out there to our country, and then having the day of mourning, celebration and taking back in September.

[David Yurdiga]

Thank you very much.

My next question is for Mr. Hynes. There was a suggestion that we have to be very respectful of the costs for businesses, and we have to be very mindful of that also. I heard that a lot of people said that there's a solution to this issue. We can rescind, maybe, Labour Day and add a national indigenous peoples day.

Would that be acceptable to the business community?

[Derrick Hynes]

What I would say is that we're not prepared to say which of the holidays should or should not be rescinded. I think that Labour Day is certainly a very important day, and we partner with our friends at the Canadian Labour Congress on many initiatives around that important day of remembrance as well. However, the concept of repurposing, if you will, an existing day to commemorate this important day is something that we certainly would be open to.

[David Yurdiga]

Thank you.

I'll share my time. We're running out of time here, so I want everyone to have a chance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you very much, Mr. Yurdiga.

Mr. Nantel, you are up for six minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I thank Ms. Webstad, who is joining us by video conference, as well as all the witnesses here this morning.

I don't know whether all the committee members share my viewpoint. When we began studying Ms. Jolibois' bill and hearing testimony, we were expecting to discuss an additional paid statutory holiday. I personally did not at all expect to get drawn into a much broader debate on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

I see today that the day proposed by Ms. Jolibois is a day for celebration and festivity, similar to how we celebrate July 1 or June 24 in Quebec.

With that in mind, I can't help but draw a parallel with another study we have done—with essentially the same members as those here today—where the representatives of the Royal Canadian Legion and the Canadian Forces debated the relevance of making November 11 a statutory holiday. Those two groups had the same objective to commemorate the efforts and sacrifices of our people. However, some were saying that young people should be in school on that day, so they can be told about what happened, and not in the basement watching a movie or playing a game, while others wanted there to be commemoration activities.

I feel that, naturally, we are headed toward instituting two days. That is a bit strange. We started our study on the statutory holiday proposed by Ms. Jolibois, but in the end, our first recommendation should be to have two days. Making that day a statutory holiday is even optional.

I am not sure to whom to put the question, but I am sharing my thought process. As for the day that would take place in the fall, everyone could be in class; we are not talking about instituting a statutory holiday here. The objective would be achieved. All young people would be in school and would be told that it is not St. Catherine Day, but “Orange Shirt Day”. I think that would be wonderful.

As for June 21, as I already said, it could not be made into a day of celebration without a budget attached to it. For people, July 1 brings to mind big shows on Parliament Hill, and that requires money. The same goes for Quebec's national holiday.

I am a 55-year-old white man of Irish descent who has lived in absolute ignorance of issues at aboriginal residential schools. In 1976, much more important things were happening in Quebec than the election of the Parti québécois: the last remaining aboriginal residential schools were being closed. Yet I only learned about it five or six years later. There is indeed a duty to remember.

I know this may seem bold, but should we recommend that there be two days? I don't know what a statutory holiday would mean for public finances, but I think reconciliation also means steps must be taken for everyone to become fully aware that they have a holiday on that day because we are proud of our indigenous peoples.

My question is for all the witnesses.

[Ron Rousseau]

I just want to say that as we talk about Thanksgiving, about the land of discovery where we all sat around a big table and ate turkey, that's not our history at all. Our history of discovery is a whole different story, so I agree with you in some ways.

Let's talk about Victoria Day. I do not want to be offensive to anybody. I have to tell you that the Crown created the residential schools. That's there. The Crown created the isolation of our people in landlocked jails inside of our reservations. The Crown has done more to our people than most would ever understand.

When I sit down and look at Victoria Day, I do not see floats. I do not see people out celebrating. Mostly I do not see our people celebrating the issues that have been brought on us inside this country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We have one minute left. Would anyone like to comment?

Ms. Cox.

[Mojdeh Cox]

Thank you.

The compounded costs of statutory holidays were mentioned earlier. I fully support the two days, if that is something we can work towards.

In the 2018 federal budget, we designated $4 billion to research on the health of indigenous communities. We invested a further $1.5 billion in improving indigenous health. That doesn't include the costs already compounded by poor health and all sorts of different considerations, from lack of infrastructure and the water crisis to mental health.

If we're looking at investment and we're really working at moving towards reconciliation, a two-day system is by far the investment we want to make.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

That's all the time we have today.

Witnesses, I want to thank all of you for your patience and for your testimony. It was really helpful to have your testimony today.

That brings this meeting to an end.

Happy holidays, everyone. Joyeuses fêtes.