Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[Pablo Rodriguez]

I cannot at this moment because we're discussing that with them. It's part of the ongoing process of co-developing with them. At the end of the day, it also depends on what we do based on their needs, their objectives, their level of organization, readiness or whatever. Those things will change.

[David Yurdiga]

Will we ever know?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Eventually, of course.

[David Yurdiga]

When? After the study? After the bill passes? When will we know the budget?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

When we get to agree about that.

[David Yurdiga]

Okay.

I have no further questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

That was the end of your time, so I appreciate that.

Mr. Breton, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Minister, we were talking earlier about the co-development process that led to this bill. In my opinion, it went well.

This bill is very close to your heart. On a personal level, what did you and your team learn from this long-term exercise? I think I heard you mention that this work took two years. I would like us to come back to that, because I think all these consultations are an important part of it. Nothing is perfect in this world, a lot of work has been done on this issue. Could you tell us more about it?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Breton.

One of the things I learned is that I still had a lot to learn, and I say that in all humility. I have always been interested in the situation of indigenous peoples, I have many friends from indigenous communities, I have read a lot and I have travelled. However, there is a whole reality that we often think we know, but that we do not know as well as we think we do.

I have also learned the importance that indigenous peoples—all of them, without exception—attach to the protection and revitalization of their languages. All this is partly due to the efforts of successive governments to destroy the culture of those peoples and to ensure that they no longer speak their languages.

The work is a huge undertaking, which explains why we do not have all the answers. However, these answers cannot only come from government; they must come from co-operation between government and indigenous peoples. This is the only way to resolve this whole issue, to make sense of it and to make a difference for our children and grandchildren. That is one of the lessons I have learned.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

This is all extremely interesting.

For my next question, I will go into detail, but it is more out of curiosity. In the consultations, were interpretation services provided to allow participants to express themselves in their own language? Perhaps the department's officials will be able to answer this question.

In addition, did you become aware of any best practices during the consultations?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

I'll answer your second question quickly, then I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Gagnon, who was part of the consultations from the beginning and who knows everything.

I saw something extraordinary this weekend. While I was in Winnipeg, I was invited to a round table where people were trying to reconnect with their language. The discussion was moderated by a 19-year-old who did not speak his language, but who had decided to learn it. There were people of various ages. The level of language knowledge was different: some understood 10% of the conversation, while others understood 80%. The most magnificent thing was everyone's desire to reclaim their language and transmit it to their children.

[Stephen Gagnon, Director General, Aboriginal Affairs Directorate, Department of Canadian Heritage]

I would just add that when we were doing the consultations across the country in the summer, we didn't always have simultaneous translation. We always did for the Inuit organizations because it was important for them to have people in simultaneous translation such as you see behind you, so that happened.

In the other areas, we didn't always have translation, but I always heard indigenous languages. Often the opening statements were made by people who were speaking their languages. I'd know that I didn't speak the language when occasionally people would look at the federal guy and start to laugh, so I knew they'd just said something about what I was wearing, or what have you. They would then translate back for me, and I guess it was to say to people that this is what it's like when you're in your area and you don't speak the language and someone has to tell you what was just said.

As the minister said this morning, you always learn that something gets lost when it's done that way. We did learn that it was important to encourage people to speak the languages across the country.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you, Mr. Breton.

For the final two minutes, we will go to Ms. Jolibois, please.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you very much.

I'm pleased to hear the words that you used, “indigenous languages as a fundamental right”. I take that seriously and to heart. In my understanding, I'm pretty sure I mean it differently than the government does, because what I'm hearing is language spoken and we talk about funding, and there is no clear funding. There is no description of the indigenous groups who would access the funding.

There's this understanding that all indigenous people live on reserves. That's what I'm sensing and what I'm hearing when I read this. I want clarification when we say “all first nations, Métis and Inuit”. To me, that would be inclusive of all the reserves, then the Far North, the Inuit people and all the three territories, and then the Métis, and in the provinces, all the languages that exist.

As my colleague pointed out earlier, many of us do not live on reserves. We live in municipalities and cities, and we, at this level, want to make sure that our organizations would have access to the funding. Therefore, for that purpose, I'm looking for specific funding that language keepers and educators and everyone else is looking for.

That said, I did hear you say that you're open to making amendments, right?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Yes.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

What kind of time frame are you looking at with these amendments? I want to recommend some groups to you to make sure that they have a chance to talk to you and to make sure with the TRC recommendations that some processes are done properly. They can't go separately; they have to go hand in hand. We have to take it seriously. I think we're on the same page about that one, that they have to be done together.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I'm going to jump in, because Ms. Jolibois has gone over her two minutes. If you could provide a quick answer, that would be wonderful.

[Pablo Rodriguez]

The three calls to action are included. The response to the three separate calls to action are included in this bill, clearly and specifically.

When we say that we include everybody, we do include all the Métis, first nations, the Inuit, the modern treaty, the self-governing nations, and everybody on and off reserve. That is why, as the deputy minister said, the money can also go to non-government indigenous groups, community groups or organized groups that could, for example, do what is required in a specific community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Minister.

That's going to bring to an end this first hour.

For the next hour we will have Hélène Laurendeau, who's going to stay, Stephen Gagnon, and I believe Mélanie Théberge as well.

We will briefly suspend the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We're going to start up again.

For the second hour with the Department of Canadian Heritage, we have Hélène Laurendeau, Deputy Minister; Stephen Gagnon, Director General, Aboriginal Affairs Directorate; and with us now also, Mélanie Théberge, Manager, Policy and Research, Indigenous Languages Legislation. Welcome to you.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

A point of clarification, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Go ahead, Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Given the short timeframe, and given that everyone participated in the list of suggested witnesses, is it possible to have a list of the witnesses scheduled and the date of their appearances? The deadline is short and I cannot help but notice that the people from Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami are not among the first witnesses we will be hearing from. I guess they also have busy schedules.

We usually trust you with the witnesses who will be invited to appear, but would it be possible to have a list?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I can talk to you about it later and show you the list. Many witnesses were invited, but not all were available this week.