Evidence of meeting #148 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was language.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Vivian  Siipiisai’pia’ki) Ayoungman (Coordinator, Research and Program Development, Siksika Studies, Old Sun Community College, As an Individual
Margaret  Kaweienón:ni) Peters (Mohawk Language Curriculum and Resource Developer, Ahkwesáhsne Mohawk Board of Education, As an Individual
Francyne Joe  President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Wayne Long  Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Chief Wilton Littlechild  Grand Chief, As an Individual
Gerald Antoine  Liidlii Kue First Nation, As an Individual
Chief Abel Bosum  Grand Chief, Cree Nation Government
David Yurdiga  Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Ms. Jolibois is next.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Georgina Jolibois NDP Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Thank you for making that comment. I appreciate that comment, because as an indigenous-speaking person and woman here, I go through it on a daily basis, and so thank you for validating that.

We have heard from ITK, AFN and the Métis National Council. The organizations AFN and MNC are very supportive of this legislation, with very small limitations attached to it too. ITK, on the other hand, is not. Then I hear “codeveloped”. For convenience's sake, the government often says, “we have codeveloped”, and then they list five organizations. That includes your organization and that includes even the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples. That's for their convenience's sake. I have heard that. For this purpose, ITK is asking for official indigenous language status across Canada, and yesterday's witnesses spoke to that. How do you guys feel about that?

Can we start with you over there in Alberta?

4:10 p.m.

Vivian (Siipiisai’pia’ki) Ayoungman

Are you talking to me?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Go ahead, Ms. Ayoungman.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Georgina Jolibois NDP Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Yes, to you. You're the only one over there.

4:10 p.m.

Vivian (Siipiisai’pia’ki) Ayoungman

I've worked with the indigenous colleges, and that has always been one of our arguments. We've always said that perhaps what we need to do is to gain official status and get the amount of money we really need to do this important work, because all of our first nations colleges are doing critical work. They're doing the research, the development, the implementation of courses, or many times would like to, as there are a lot of initiatives on back burners because they do not have the funding.

Indian Affairs, in their wisdom, or lack thereof, in the last few years used to have monies that went off the top of first nations dollars in education that went to post-secondary. Off of the post-secondary dollars, they took a little bit to give to our first nations colleges, but as I said, in their lack of wisdom, those monies became proposal-driven, and it was devastating to our first nations colleges. What happened? In B.C. none of the indigenous institutions got any money. In Alberta, the first one to be hit was Red Crow Community College, from the largest tribe in Canada. The next year we got hit.

Now, over the last two or three years, we have not received any federal funding. It's all going to public institutions that will teach us who we are, teach us our language. We've talked to them, and they don't have the programs we do. Our students come to us and say, “I never got this at that public institution. I'm so glad I'm coming here, because I'm getting it.” What we have been saying over the years is, wouldn't it be wonderful if our languages were recognized as official languages, and then the dollars would be pumped into them?

I want to thank the other ladies for talking about funding stability, long-term funding, because those have always been issues for our first nations colleges. We operate on year-to-year grants, on shoestring budgets, never quite knowing what is going to be funded. It would be so nice to know once and for all what we're going to be able to do in the years to come, but we never get that opportunity.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you. That brings you to the end of your seven minutes.

We will now go to Mr. Miller for seven minutes.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

[Member spoke in Mohawk]

4:15 p.m.

Margaret (Kaweienón:ni) Peters

[Witness spoke in Mohawk]

February 28th, 2019 / 4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

[Member spoke in Mohawk]

4:15 p.m.

Margaret (Kaweienón:ni) Peters

[Witness spoke in Mohawk]

[English]

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

I first off want to acknowledge the two fluent language speakers here who are members of Parliament, members of the NDP who have spent a good part of their lives in the struggle to preserve indigenous languages. I'm just a learner. I do want to underscore that.

Kaweienón:ni, could you speak briefly? I'm going to give my colleague Kent Hehr my last couple of minutes, but I want you to speak to your struggle in your community to preserve the language.

I visited Akwesasne Freedom School. It's a school that is built out of armed struggle over treaty rights, and out of that came a school that was able to preserve and underscore language, culture, tradition. What is your experience in ensuring that people actually become speakers?

4:15 p.m.

Margaret (Kaweienón:ni) Peters

In 1980, when the Freedom School began, it was more like we had a community political uprising. The school began around 1980. People didn't want to send their kids to the board-run schools, the federally-run schools. The people at that time decided they wanted to take education into their own hands, and I like what she said about the ceremonial part, because that's what the Freedom School was pretty much based on. There's no separation of language and culture.

The Freedom School, when it began, didn't have much money. It was just people who wanted their kids to learn the language. The parents hadn't learned the language, but they wanted a place that could provide their kids with the opportunity to learn it.

The Freedom School became an immersion program in 1985, and I became a teacher in 1986. I think we were making about $200 Canadian a week. We were there for years. Some teachers before me were volunteering their time. They got food baskets. These are the kinds of struggles we have with our language situation.

We have a population of 15,000 people, and we're lucky if we have 700 speakers. It sounds like a lot compared to other native communities, because so many have lost so many speakers.

Our language is at a critical state. I don't know if anyone here is bilingual, if you speak French and English. What if all of a sudden there were no French speakers left? You can't find teachers to teach French in the schools and you can't find interpreters. Well, that's the situation we're in today.

At the Freedom School, people said we didn't have real teachers because they didn't go to school to learn about.... The school, since its operation, has actually produced a lot of fluent speakers, and some have become teachers in the school.

The heart and the desire and the commitment to the language is in our community, but we are always struggling with going ahead.

It's sad to say. It's always that we lack the funding to hire teachers or....

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I believe we were sharing time with Mr. Anandasangaree, so I am now going to Mr. Anandasangaree.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all for being here.

Ms. Joe, I really do want to thank you for the work of NWAC. I know our government values the work you do and I think we've worked together on many different initiatives.

With respect to languages, I was rather perplexed, so I had to get some clarity from the department.

My understanding is that you're right about the codevelopment: We had three national indigenous organizations that were part of the codevelopment process, and NWAC was not one of them. I believe we had 1,200 engagements with individuals and organizations with respect to the consultation, and I am advised that NWAC participated in five of those engagement sessions. Of 20 engagement sessions, I think you were part of about five. I'm also advised that NWAC received $166,000 in funding to undertake consultation and that a written submission was received from NWAC.

My sense is that while in your opinion, it may not be adequate—and I respect that if you feel that way—we want to put on the record that we definitely value what you're doing, and that your perspective is essential to the work we've done. Bill C-91 in part reflects many of the things recommended by you and your organization. I want to acknowledge this and to thank you for raising your concerns. Certainly, we will continue to engage on this as we go forward on the funding, and on other aspects, and in the future we will definitely work more collaboratively with NWAC and your team.

Thank you.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

I'll give you a few minutes if you want to comment—no, I'm sorry. It's not a few minutes, actually, but a few seconds that I can give you if you wanted to add to that. Then we'll be closing this panel.

4:20 p.m.

Vivian (Siipiisai’pia’ki) Ayoungman

I'd like to comment about the work we do at my level. When I started doing the curriculum work at our college, I followed protocol and worked with our ceremonial people first. I had a feast, I met with them and I told them about the work we were going to do, and they said,“We fully support your work.” I went to recruit them to work with our college.

They said that what they wanted to help me do was to open that darn closet. They said that their way of life, their language and everything had been locked away for far too long. They said that it was about time that we opened that closet. They said that it brought them back to residential schools. When they first got there, all of their personal items—their clothing, their language and their culture—were put in a little sack that was thrown in a closet, and the door was locked. “It's about time we opened that door,” they said. “We'll work with you.”

I started working with them. In ceremony, a lot of the people that conduct the ceremonies are men, but throughout this they said, “Talk to our Siksika women for the women's teachings.” I work with a core group of Siksika women at our level, at our community level, and that's where we're getting the input from the women—the stories, the lullabies, the child-rearing and the women's roles. That's where all of that is coming from, and it's very much Siksika culture-based.

I just wanted to say that.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you. That brings us to the end of our time for this panel.

For everyone, if you have additional comments that you want to put in, you can also put comments in writing. You have to send them to the clerk. I ask that you do that as quickly as possible, just to make sure that it's within the time in which we're considering this legislation.

Thank you to our panel.

We'll be suspending briefly and starting again with our next panel.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

I was going to start by asking everyone this question. Our Thursday meetings have been set up to start at 3:15 and go to 4:15. Without starting on a conversation about Thursdays in general, when we're in a building other than West Block, what I was going to ask is whether for today it would be okay with everyone to extend it to 5:30.

4:30 p.m.

A voice

Could we cut the seven minutes to five minutes?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Do you mean do a five-minute thing?

I just wanted to check beforehand so that I can make sure I'm managing.

I will try to manage the time as best I can. I don't want to take any more time doing this, but yes, I'll try to end it by 5:15 if I can. Can we negotiate for 5:20? Okay.

Joining us today is Grand Chief Wilton Littlechild, who will be arriving shortly.

We also have Chief Gerald Antoine from the Liidlii Kue First Nation. Welcome, and welcome, Grand Chief Littlechild.

From the Cree Nation Government, we have Grand Chief Abel Bosum, Sarah Pashagumskum, Tina Petawabano and Dorothy Stewart. Thank you.

We also have Paul Joffe, lawyer. Welcome back, Mr. Joffe.

We're going to go in the order you appear on the agenda.

We will begin with Grand Chief Wilton Littlechild for eight minutes, please.

4:30 p.m.

Grand Chief Wilton Littlechild Grand Chief, As an Individual

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good evening to each and every one of you.

[Witness spoke in Cree]

[English]

I bring you greetings in my language to acknowledge your excellencies and all the fellow panellists here and to be grateful for this opportunity for me.

I will state at the outset that I'm appearing on my own individual behalf. I don't have the mandate to speak for Ermineskin, Saddle Lake, Alexander, Sunchild, O'Chiese and Onion Lake First Nations in Alberta, who desire to express their own sovereignty and have indicated to me that I don't speak on their behalf. Hopefully, I'll speak perhaps more as a grandfather than anything else.

Thank you for that.

Also, as a prelude to my comments on proposed Bill C-91, as I said in my language, I want to express very sincere gratitude to each and every one of you for the work you're doing here.

At an earlier time, in an earlier life in the other place, as we used to call it, and when I had the great honour of giving my maiden speech in Cree in 1988 as a member of Parliament, things were very different. I won't go into all of the hoops I had to go through to do that, but I want to indicate how important language was and is, then and now, not only to identity and pride but also to spirituality, which is an essence of who we are.

I'm glad to see my brother Romeo here. He will remember that during the United Nations debates on the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, when the articles came up on languages, I spoke for 10 minutes in Cree at the UN. You can imagine what the temperature of the room went up to. I asked people, “How did you feel when I spoke my language? Were you angry? Were you disturbed?”, because I could see the interpreters in their booths looking at each other and moving around. I did that for a purpose, because the point I was trying to make was that when our ancestors signed treaties, Treaty No. 6, you can imagine how they must have felt when they didn't understand the languages that were being used.

I want to do that again today by addressing Bill C-91 through a treaty lens, because there are some omissions in the bill from that perspective.

Another experience I draw on was the first international conference on indigenous languages, which was held in Japan in 2005. At that point, I spoke on an international legal framework for indigenous languages that was then in place.

I've also chaired some of the United Nations caucus meetings on indigenous languages. A couple of weeks ago, I guess almost a month ago now, I had the pleasure of presenting at the launch of the International Year of Indigenous Languages.

This is a really historic time, then, for this committee to be discussing such an important bill. At this time of the year, there are many reasons of importance. At the launch of the International Year of Indigenous Languages, I also referenced another part of my life, which was as a commissioner for the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. For six and a half years, as I'm sure you all know, we went across the country, listening to former students. Survivors of residential schools shared their stories with us. Sometimes I would ask them, “What does reconciliation mean to you?” I remember one old man said, “Reconciliation, to me, means you give me my language back.” He paused, and then he said, “No. No. Reconciliation, for me, means give me half of my language back and I'll be very, very happy.”

I also want to share with you an opportunity I had on another occasion. I know that some of you have heard me say this before, but I ask each of you this question: Have you ever heard a language die? Have you ever heard a language die? One time, at a meeting at the United Nations, where we always offer an invocation and a prayer to begin our meetings, we asked an old man if he would be willing to say a prayer for us. He said, “I want you to listen very carefully. Listen to the sound of my voice. Listen to the words I'm going to use, because I am the last living person who speaks our language.” He went on to pray. About a month later, I got a phone call from a man who said, “Willie, the old man died.” I said, “What old man?” He said, “Do you remember the man who prayed for us at the UN? He died.”

I would not wish that experience on anyone. It was almost like somebody hit me right in the gut. I didn't know the man, but I heard his language, and I heard it die. That's how important this work is for me. It's because of the situation of our languages across the country. I heard survivors say, many times in anger and many times in tears, that they wished they could speak their language, but they couldn't; it was beaten out of them, they said, at residential school.

With that background, I look at Bill C-91 through the lens of a treaty. I have some comments I want to make in that regard.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

If I may, I must inform you that you've already gone a couple of minutes over, so try to get them out quickly. I want to make sure we can hear from everyone on the panel.

4:40 p.m.

Grand Chief, As an Individual

Grand Chief Wilton Littlechild

Okay.

Thank you very much.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

I was going to let you get your comments in right now, if you wanted....

Okay. Then I will go to Chief Gerald Antoine of the Liidlii Kue, please.