Canadian Heritage Committee on May 19th, 2016

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Many people were troubled that you sold your satellite trucks. What were they replaced with?

[Michel Cormier]

We now have broadcasting methods that no longer require trucks. Let me give you an example.

When Premier Notley visited Fort McMurray, there was a bus full of journalists, and we broadcasted live from an iPhone on RDI, our mobile platforms, and Facebook Live. That is where we stand today.

We did the same thing when we covered the bombings at the Bataclan and elsewhere in Paris. We were there when the attacks took place. We broadcasted over an iPhone using what is called “Dejero technology”, which is simply a way of broadcasting live to air using a cell phone, without any loss of quality. In short, not needing to have equipment in a truck is an enormous advantage. That does not mean we do not use it when we need it, because signals are not always available.

However, the idea of equipment that must be kept in a truck will obviously be entirely obsolete in 15 years. This gives us more flexibility and costs less. So I think it is a positive development for everyone.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Absolutely.

And this technological change requires you to recruit new and versatile journalists and it is taking place on your watch based on your experience because we knew you back when it took 19 cameras to shoot “Pépinot”.

I do not know where I should direct my next question. I touched on the subject earlier, but I forgot to go back to it. In CBC/Radio-Canada's financial statements, digital investments are something of a large block. Will it be possible at some point, at least for parliamentarians, to have an idea of the investments that are being made in the various sectors—English, French, radio, television, and the Internet?

Is this a question I can ask you, or should I wait for Mr. Lacroix to be here?

[Michel Cormier]

We are in the process of determining how we will spend that money. It is not yet entirely decided. I assume the information is usually made available in annual reports or during appearances by board members.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I see.

[Marco Dubé]

I would like to add that, if you go into a regional CBC or Radio-Canada station, such as the one in Ottawa, for example, and look at how we operate, you will see that our activities are entirely integrated. In other words, the boundaries between web, television, and radio in a single station are increasingly blurred. We encourage all our teams to contribute to all platforms. For example, consider a radio program that has to expand its digital presence. This separation between platforms is fuzzier than it used to be and will be increasingly so.

I think it is important for us to stick to our mission, quite apart from technology and platforms. For the past 80 years, CBC/Radio-Canada has been faced with technological changes that have always disrupted the way we did things. As they did then, Canadians today acknowledge the value that we generate for the country as its public broadcaster.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you, Mr. Nantel. Time is up.

We'll go to Mr. O'Regan.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's good to see you here. My first job was as a 10-year-old reporter on Anybody Home? on Saturday mornings, so I'll blame you.

[Andrew Cochran, Senior Managing Director, Strategy, CBC News, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

That was a few years ago.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

That was a few years ago.

I remember—and I think of it in Fort McMurray—when I was growing up in Goose Bay, Labrador, and we had to evacuate because of a forest fire. The CBC was our lifeline, and it is for many people who live in the north and who live in local areas.

What I want to concentrate on in my questions to you may sound provincial in the sense that I grew up in Newfoundland and Labrador, and so my examples will come from there, but where I'm going with that is with local newsstands and how we handle that nationally.

I'll take you back in time to the early 1990s, or mid-1990s, I can't remember the exact date, but Here and Now, which is the local supper hour newscast in St. John's, was doing extremely well. When I was growing up it was an institution. It was so pervasive that if you added up, but not per capita, the number of viewers they had in every other supper hour market—in Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver, and Halifax—that number did not equal the number of people who watched Here and Now. You got rid of it, which I find astounding, as I did then. Then the Canada Now experiment began. Ian Hanomansing came in, and eventually the move came that it would be a half an hour of local television. I find that astounding, because if you saw any such glaring success in any other environment, and by any other company, you would immediately say, “How can we possibly learn from that, and how can we not emulate that and duplicate that in our other markets, because these guys are obviously on to something?”

Unfortunately somebody at the time—not you, this is before your time—thought better. In fact, a number of people thought better. In fact, it seems to me an entire mentality thought better, which gives me great cause for concern, because even though Here and Now in St. John's has gone back to its one hour, it is no longer anywhere near what it was. The private network immediately grabbed about 75% of the market share after that, because people didn't want a half an hour. They wanted an hour, and in that half an hour the news became even less than that because of weather, and sports, and the other sundry items you need to have in a supper hour newscast. It was a glaring lack of judgment, so I'm nervous that in the latest cuts—which in your eyes should be a glaring success—my little neck of the woods is probably going to suffer.

Maybe one of you could fill me in on how the most recent round of cuts is going to take them back, now that they're almost at parity with that private network.

[Andrew Cochran]

I'm happy to tell you that Here and Now is substantially back, perhaps not quite to the historic levels you're talking about, but still neck and neck with VOCM in the marketplace and vital to the life of Newfoundland and Labrador.

In fact, an example I wanted to bring to your attention about the commitment of local broadcasting to the community happened on Here and Now a few weeks ago. As you know, the provincial budget is a matter of considerable interest in that province right now, so our staff there turned over the whole airwaves for an hour to have the premier and the finance minister on live to talk about the budget. Maybe you were one of 700 people who sent in comments, and I answered, and we're on Facebook. It was a grand—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I have a direct line for my comments. It's one of the privileges of the job.

[Andrew Cochran]

There you go.

Absolutely Here and Now is vital to us and to Newfoundland and Labrador. It's one of our two most successful evening news programs, along with Compass in Prince Edward Island, in terms of viewers.

Interestingly, in Newfoundland and Labrador, the staff there are not only working with that program, but they're leaders in providing digital services throughout the province, and they're leading in some of our experimental activities in starting out an experiment to do a local YouTube channel for Newfoundland and Labrador.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Cochran, I'm a big fan of digital services. I use them every day, and I think you do excellent work there. I'm a big fan of CBC Radio 2. I think you do excellent work there.

Let me cut to the quick, because the word on the street is you're regionalizing everything in Halifax.

[Andrew Cochran]

No, what's—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Or how much are you regionalizing in Halifax?

[Andrew Cochran]

Here's what has been regionalized and what hasn't. We took a decision about three years ago to change the management structure of our regions across the country. What used to be two separate CBC regions, the Maritimes and Newfoundland and Labrador, became one. I happened to be the managing director at the time and was part of that activity.

We did centralize the senior management for the region, but at the same time as doing that, we decentralized from Toronto to Halifax more and more decision-making about what would be going on in Atlantic Canada. It was movement in two directions at the same time. To some extent, it was bringing the national decisions closer to the regions.

The other thing that was done as a regionalization was to do regional late night and weekend television news. Aside from that the four morning shows, the noon show, the evening news, and the digital service are still services for Newfoundland and Labrador.

The impact has been at a senior management level and also at the late night and weekend, our two lowest watched television programs.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

The late night TV newscast and weekend news in Newfoundland and Labrador have closed.

[Andrew Cochran]

Late night and weekend come from Halifax.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

And you know—as he said, he's been there—but with all due respect to my friends from Nova Scotia, there's no Atlantic in your broadcast market. People in St. John's are not interested in what's going on in Halifax any more than you're interested in what's going on in Toronto.

The reason I bring this up is if you listen to people on the ground and local people there, that is what they will tell you. The performance hour that you put on that's based out of Halifax nobody watches in Newfoundland and Labrador. It's that simple. It's an hour and a half from St. John's to Halifax and it's an hour and a half from Halifax to Ottawa. It's a very different place.

I wouldn't mind if I was here saying be charitable and look after my rock and that large piece of land just north of it. But it's a market that's starving for you, and it just seems to me that time and again I have seen management decisions that come, that seem to.... It's the goose that lays the golden egg in both the model and the absolute numbers of people who watch, people who crave you. And yet they often fall victim to across-the-board cuts that seem to be done with no creativity or listening to the people who are on the ground. There's no thought to that or experiments like Canada Now, when it worked. I don't get it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Just a quick answer, please, and then we'll move on.

[Jennifer McGuire]

The financial pressures of CBC absolutely contributed to the decisions we made locally.

As you can appreciate, full service in every market, in multiple markets, costs a lot of money. Every community would say the same thing, that they want a full roster of local services from CBC. Communities where we're not and people would like us to be would say the same thing.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you for those questions, Mr. O'Regan.

We'll go to Mr. Waugh for seven minutes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I'm going to pick up on the venting Seamus.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

You haven't seen anything yet.