Canadian Heritage Committee on May 19th, 2016

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Good morning, everyone.

It is my pleasure to be able to fill in for our chair, Hedy Fry. I am Vice-Chair Larry Maguire. I will be chairing today's meeting.

I want to welcome our guests here from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to start with this morning. We have an hour and a half for your presentations. Because of the time we have today, we will do a couple of seven-minute rounds and then, as time permits, we will do one or two rounds of five minutes each. Those include the questions and the answers, as my chair always informs our guests, and members as well.

With that, I would like to introduce Mr. Cochran, Ms. McGuire—welcome to the family name—Mr. Cormier, and Mr. Dubé. It is a pleasure to have you with us this morning.

[A voice]

It is a family name, but it is spelled differently.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Oh, no, the other side of the family spelled it that way as well when we left Ireland.

Thank you very much for being here this morning and taking time out of your busy schedules to appear before our committee. We are dealing with rural and remote areas of broadcasting and media, not just television and radio. We want to have your input into this very important topic to make sure that we provide as much news into those areas of Canada as we can. Of course, we are very interested in the models you work with.

With that, I will turn it over to you for your presentation, 10 minutes, and then we will proceed.

[Jennifer McGuire, General Manager and Editor in Chief, CBC News, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, members of the committee, for inviting us here today.

We welcome this opportunity to meet with you to talk about local services. Canadians have told us, as you have heard through the CRTC hearings, that local news is of utmost importance to them.

We're somewhat unique in the ecosystem, so we thought we would begin by talking about CBC locally and what's going on in the country for us right now.

In Newfoundland and Atlantic time zones, the day is well under way. About 80 of our news gatherers are already chasing stories. They'll file them across platforms for mobile, desktop, radio, and television. Soon our radio noontime programs will connect neighbours with issues in their community. Our other teams are preparing for our afternoon shows on radio and our six o'clock television supper hours in every province.

In the digital world, our deadlines are continuous. On our site and on other social channels, stories are being posted, published, tweeted, broadcast, telecast, and updated all through the waking hours. When breaking news deserves immediate attention, it goes first as a push alert. Here in the eastern time zone, daily story meetings are getting under way right now. Every day is different, yet every day is in some ways the same. There are always more stories than reporters we have to cover them. Or as the case may be, uncover them.

Local editorial choices are always a balance of dealing with breaking news and, particularly for CBC, leadership in stories that no one else is doing. These for us take two forms, what we call enterprise stories, which are generated from the native curiosity of our reporters and staff; and investigative stories, probing for facts and patterns, asking questions previously unasked, and if need be and often, holding principles to account. I am proud to say that we have more than 70 CBC journalists dedicated to investigative reporting today. This has grown. They're based in cities across the country.

To the west of here, in the central time zone, our Winnipeg morning show just wrapped up. It's the most listened to morning radio program in its market. Canadians across this country wake up to CBC Radio. We're number one in 13 of the 23 markets where ratings are taken, and we're in the top three in almost every rated community in the country. Ratings are not the driver for a public service broadcaster, but they are an indicator of our relevance to Canadians.

Over the next hours, about 150 more CBC news gatherers will be at work across our four western provinces. In the north, our day takes on many more dimensions. We broadcast in eight aboriginal languages from stations across 3,500 kilometres of Canada, from Whitehorse eastward to Iqaluit and Kuujjuaq.

I've used a lot of numbers. Let me gather the math for you. Altogether we have 350 news gatherers in our local stations, who work alongside 650 writers, editors, producers, and hosts. All of them work in an integrated way to present our radio and television programs plus our continuous publishing of digital content on all of our platforms and other people's platforms.

Our local programming across the country exceeds 8,000 broadcast minutes a day, Monday to Friday, plus digital, plus additional content all weekend long, on all platforms. We originate from 33 stations including one all-digital station in Hamilton and three in the north.

To do this we have about 1,150 people working today in local services to cover this large country that we live in. This is fewer than before. We've made reductions and faced the same pressures others have. We have taken difficult but considered steps we thought were important to ensure sustainability in the long term.

We have re-imagined everything. It's led to the largest transformation ever in local broadcasting within CBC/Radio-Canada. Today our local services are central to our long-term corporate plan, strategy 2020. Local is at the forefront of the digital shift for the whole company and is key to us being able to deliver more local services, where audiences are moving, at lower cost, on mobile, desktop, radio, and television.

Many of our reporters will end the day after doing a story that doesn't even exist, or that they don't even know about right now. We resource our stations and train our people for many eventualities, among them the ability to stream or broadcast live from anywhere at a moment's notice, through satellite technology or through their smartphone.

We have a brief video to show to you today, that started that way about two weeks ago.

[Video presentation]

That was a sizzle reel and not a newscast. You saw from the tape, our coverage of Fort McMurray in the midst of the fury of the fires. CBC provided up-to-the-minute coverage in both official languages that residents needed, including survival information through the early hours and continuing through the evacuation, details on where to get help, ways to lend a helping hand in contributions to charities, expanded local footprint in the local service we were providing, and of course, the local programming was supported by the network and vice versa.

On our website we were continuous. People were able to reach us with timely information they could rely on. CBC was there giving essential information, helping the community navigate its choices, challenges, and causes for relief or celebration in service to the local community, but as important, sharing those local stories across the country. That's what we do every day.

Thank you for your attention. I look forward to our discussion afterwards but now I would like to introduce my colleague from Radio-Canada, Michel Cormier, general manager of news and current affairs.

[Michel Cormier, General Manager, News and Current Affairs - French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

Thank you, Ms. McGuire.

Mr. Chair, we are pleased to be here with you today. With me is Marco Dubé, executive director of regional services, French services. This is an important part of the information we offer.

Radio-Canada's local and regional news, like the news sector as a whole, is accelerating the digital and mobile content it offers in order to develop a more constant and continuous link with its audience. Our audiences today want to consult our content online, on their preferred platform, and when they want it. That means we can no longer simply offer programming at set times. That is why, in the regions and elsewhere, we offer more than news programs at the end of the day or radio news at set times.

This approach, which seeks to establish a more direct link with our local audience, reflects changing consumption habits. It is at the heart of Radio-Canada's Strategy 2020. The principle of this new relationship with local audiences is simple and can be summarized as more local, more often, and on more screens.

In concrete terms, Radio-Canada's regional services have trained hundreds of people across the country on the new digital tools that are necessary for this important shift. When teams go out in the field, they still produce news for television and radio of course, but above all their efforts focus on digital access and mobility. Our promise to local audiences is to serve them 18 hours per day, seven days per week. This is a fairly substantial commitment.

This increased presence has enabled Radio-Canada's local and regional stations to multiply contact points throughout the day with the communities they serve. Our journalists are constantly updating news through seven new regional websites: two in Ontario, two in eastern Quebec, and three in the Atlantic region, for a total of 21 across the country. They provide a digital presence on Facebook, to be sure, and on the other digital platforms.

For their part, news anchors are active throughout the day on the various platforms and make targeted appearances on television and radio to keep audiences up to date and to maintain this link all day long. Our work is already paying off. Visits to our regional web pages increased by 21% in the first three months of 2016. This is a substantial increase.

Radio-Canada is committed to being closer to its local and regional audiences. I will show you a short video highlighting the shift in our local coverage over the past year. This shift has allowed us to better respond to daily news events and to follow developments on all platforms throughout the day. This is how one of our journalists, Martine Laberge, covered the failure of the Nipigon River bridge, this past winter.

You can now watch the video.

[Audiovisual presentation]

A few years ago, we would have covered an event like that very differently. We would have done radio reports and a feature for the Téléjournal at the end of the day. Now, we cover the story as it unfolds. We are on all platforms. We make sure there is maximum outreach on the web using key words, and then incorporate all of that into a national story.

As the journalist said, the bridge failure cut the country in half. This is the new way of covering events.

We could also look at the events in Fort McMurray. We provided massive coverage of the developing story. We connected local journalists and the local machine with the national network, with very compelling results.

It should be noted that Radio-Canada stations do not have the same importance or play the same role from one region to another in Canada. Outside Quebec—and this must be remembered—francophone communities are in a minority and Radio-Canada is often the main if not the only source of information in French.

In Quebec regions, Radio-Canada operates in an environment with more French-language media, but it contributes to the diversity and quality of regional information. In the Quebec City, Ottawa and Montreal markets—the three big cities—Radio-Canada operates in highly competitive media markets and must constantly strive to stand out.

Despite these differences, Radio-Canada's public service mandate is the same, regardless of where it broadcasts: to offer Canadian citizens all the information they need to make informed choices. I think the word “citizens” is important. We are not talking about clients or audience, but citizens. This is the defining feature of Radio-Canada's public service role. Citizens have rights and responsibilities, and they need information to make choices in our democracy and in their lives. That is Radio-Canada's mission statement for providing information.

This mission also means seeing how major national issues play out in local communities, whether the survival of the French language, medical assistance in dying—a topical subject—or the integration of Syrian refugees. The different experiences of citizens enrich the national dialogue on major issues, which allows us to go beyond the traditional role of reflecting the regions on the national network and to better represent the country to our audiences. In this regard, we will invest more in a network of national correspondents based in the regions and place greater emphasis on our anchors and public affairs shows such as Enquête or La Facture outside Montreal and Quebec.

This total package of information, including a stronger and more constant link with our local and regional audiences, is intended to keep those audiences informed of events as soon as they occur, and to give meaning to the events that shape their community life. That is Radio-Canada's public service commitment, and this is what creates the strength and originality of the bond that links us with all Canadians.

Thank you.

We will be very pleased to answer your questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you very much for your presentation. Because of the videos, we had a little extra time there, and we certainly appreciate your efforts in providing us with your information.

This morning we'll start off our first seven-minute round with Ms. Dabrusin.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

I was looking through your mandate as set out in the Broadcasting Act. I'm focusing right now on subparagraph 3(1)(m)(vi), which states:

contribute to shared national consciousness and identity,

Also, subparagraph 3(1)(m)(viii) states:

reflect the multicultural and multiracial nature of Canada;

We heard evidence a few evenings ago from members of the Punjabi press and the Ukrainian press. They were commenting on fact that they didn't feel their community voices were reflected in the mainstream media. That was part of the service they were providing. They felt that there was a disconnect there. I know that there used to be a Punjabi Hockey Night in Canada, which I'm assuming is no longer there.

How do you make that connection to the communities and make sure those local and diverse voices are being brought through?

[Jennifer McGuire]

Reflecting the nature of Canada is an absolute priority for CBC, and we actually get very specific in how we approach it. For example, for our radio morning shows across the country, we actually set specific objectives for those shows to reflect the communities they're in. That includes making sure specific community stories are told, making sure we're representing the new face of Canada in terms of all the stories we do across our platforms, and then obviously changing the nature of the staff within CBC to be more representative, because the perspective you have around the editorial table obviously helps shape the content that you do.

What I would say is that it's a top priority. When we look at content, we see content reflecting communities represented. Can we do a better job? Absolutely, we can do a better job, but it is a significant priority for us.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Is there any plan in terms of communications with the various working members of the ethnic press to bring in those community voices?

[Jennifer McGuire]

We do, and in our regional services, we have managers who connect with various stakeholders in the communities. We've certainly had partnership conversations with other broadcasters, such as APTN, and where it makes sense, we'll embark on initiatives together. Certainly, for dealing with our commitment to aboriginal stories, we've created a stand-alone aboriginal content unit, which is based in Winnipeg but also has a national mandate. We've added editorial resources dedicated to that, which is what generated the “Missing and Murdered” project, which CBC generated and which changed the nature of the conversation around that important issue.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

I just want a quick answer on this. On women's day I had asked a question about the representation of women within the CBC, in managerial and editorial staff. Do you have percentages on the number of women who hold senior positions within the CBC?

[Jennifer McGuire]

I guess I'll start, as the woman on the panel.

In English services we have 13 senior managers. Eight of those are women, including in the key jobs of EVP of English programming, head of news, and head of programming. They're all female. At the corporate level we have seven vice-presidents. Five of those are women, including as head of English services, general counsel of the organization, and CFO.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

There's a larger question that I've been looking at. When I look at it, about 63% of CBC's funding comes publicly, which leaves a third from advertising, I presume. It's a hybrid as opposed to a purely public broadcaster that's working alongside private broadcasters. I'm just wondering, when you look at that, how does that work? We're hearing about advertising dollars, and private industry saying there is a shrinking pie. If they move to digital, there is less advertising available, and a hybrid organization is working alongside them.

Does it make more sense to render CBC fully public alongside the private broadcasters, or is there another model that would work?

[Jennifer McGuire]

A significant portion of CBC's funding comes from its commercial activities, even in the case of CBC news.

In terms of the argument that CBC somehow is taking digital ad potential revenue away from privates, only about 1% of CBC's revenue is from digital. So I think the argument that CBC somehow is cannibalizing the business case out there is not necessarily a valid one.

We are commercial-free on radio. We have commercial services on television. Obviously we're commercial on video. We have a subscription service from where the bulk of our revenue comes, the BDUs, and the revenue we get for the news channels.

So I would say it's not feasible in the current economic climate, and I think the argument that somehow we are the cause of the ills is probably not fair.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I wasn't actually necessarily even going with the causing of the ills, when I was talking about it. It's just that you see in other countries that they have a fully funded public broadcaster, such as the BBC.

[Jennifer McGuire]

Right.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

We have a hybrid model.

[Jennifer McGuire]

Yes, we do.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

That creates a difference. When we're looking at media concentration and local programming, my question is whether a fully public model, as opposed to a hybrid, better serves local programming.

[Jennifer McGuire]

You will get a different kind of programming if it's commercial-free. Certainly if you look at CBC Radio, it's very different from any of its private competitors. The key to the argument is “fully funded”.

At this point, a significant portion of the money for programming comes from CBC's commercial revenues.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin.

We'll go to Mr. Waugh for seven minutes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you.

I'll just pick up on that. Radio is your most successful property, and yet we have no commercials. It's fully funded by the taxpayer. I do see your demographics increasing every year on CBC Radio. So why not?

You were out there. This is fully funded by the people of Canada, and there are no commercials.

[Jennifer McGuire]

That's right. There are commercials around radio properties digitally, but on broadcast it is commercial-free.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

That's right. It seems to me, being a former broadcaster, that this market is untapped. Millions of dollars could be raised, coast to coast to coast, if we sold some advertising on your most successful property, which is radio.

[Jennifer McGuire]

There was a time in history when CBC Radio actually had advertising on it. It was not seen as successful at different times, of course. I think for CBC Radio it would be a fundamentally different product if it was forced to absorb advertising. I think its strength is in the formats that it has.