Evidence of meeting #33 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sports.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alan Zimmerman  Director, Policy and Planning, Sport Canada, Department of Canadian Heritage
Marie-Geneviève Mounier  Assistant Deputy Minister, Sport, Major Events and Commemorations, Department of Canadian Heritage
Nancy Ruth  Senator, Senate
Mandy Bujold  Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual
Lanni Marchant  Athlete, Athletics Canada, As an Individual

12:10 p.m.

Lanni Marchant Athlete, Athletics Canada, As an Individual

My name is Lanni Marchant. I'm a 2016 Olympian in the 10,000-metre and marathon this past summer. I'm the Canadian record holder in the marathon and half-marathon. I'm a graduate of University of Ottawa's faculty of law and Michigan State University's college of law. I'm a practising attorney in Tennessee, and I'm licensed and admitted to both the state and federal bars.

I'm here today to speak about my experience as an athlete in Canada—as a female athlete in Canada, for that matter. As we heard earlier this morning, we're getting close to having more representation, almost equal representation, of our young girls and our women at all levels of sport. When I contacted Athletics Canada, they told me that we have almost equal representation of boys and girls, men and women, registering with different facets through Athletics Canada. We have gender equality in our national cross-country program now, so men and women will compete over the same distances. As we saw this summer, our women's teams across the board were forces to be reckoned with.

I think perhaps to an outsider, it appears we have gender neutrality in Canada. Based on my experiences, however, I have to say that this is not necessarily true. Looks can be deceiving.

I came into this sport late. I made my appearance on the scene in 2012, when I just missed out on making the Olympic team that year. At the time, Athletics Canada didn't see me as a rising star. Though I was well under the Olympic marathon standard, I was not selected to represent Canada at the London Olympics. We had zero representation in the women's marathon and 10,000-metre run that year.

Since 2012 I've set our national record in the marathon and half-marathon, and I've made every international team I've set out to make. The problem is that they keep moving the goalposts. Most recently, our 2016 Olympic and our 2017 World qualifying marks have been substantially lowered in the women's marathon and 10,000 metres. Our male counterparts see little to no reduction in the qualifying marks they're supposed to meet.

This summer Krista DuChene and I were the first women to line up for Canada in the women's marathon since 1996. That's 20 years.

We've spoken about how high-performance athletes are meant to inspire. The funding we receive is meant to improve enrolment and encourage participation throughout high school and post-collegiate levels, the periods when we're most likely to lose young girls in the sporting world. I question how this initiative will be met if it's another 20 years before we see Canadian women running in the Olympic forum.

In preparation for this summer's Olympics, I once again found myself in the crosshairs with the high-performance division of Athletics Canada. I promise I don't like poking bears, but I had qualified for two events, and the ability for me to double came under scrutiny. My being vocal about wanting to double brought along a threat of a sanction against me.

It was during those six weeks of limbo that my perspective switched. What started out as a selfish endeavour—I wanted to go to the Olympics and I wanted to do two events—became something different. It took on a whole new purpose for me. I was battling Athletics Canada for two spots I had rightfully earned on the team, but it wasn't just my right I was fighting for. Canadians spoke up and voiced their desire to see me compete in both events, not because I was a medal contender, not because it would be nice if Athletics Canada let this little girl run, but because they wanted women and girls in their lives to see a strong Canadian female competing for Canada. In my mind, I was no longer asking for permission for myself, I was demanding it for all of us.

There is very little understanding of the development of a female distance runner in Canada and the fact that age does not necessarily dictate results. The funding of athletes like me, over 30 and female, often comes with performance requirements that are not set on younger athletes or equally on our male counterparts. I will likely not be funded in 2017, after being on the 2016 Olympic team.

Our current government has stated a goal of gender parity in Parliament. We haven't seen that yet in sport in Canada. High-performance directors, head coaches, CEOs, and other title positions within sport federations, such as the COC and Sport Canada, are still predominantly male. After what our female athletes achieved in Rio, there is now a greater expectation to see “us” reflected in the governing bodies and agencies of sport in Canada.

The issue here is not just about participation numbers or female representation as athletes or sporting reps, however. We expect our teammates to have our backs, not to comment on our backsides. We do not need men in the sporting world to proclaim that they stand behind us as feminists because it puts them in the perfect position to comment on our behinds. Instead, we want them to stand beside us.

Recently, I was running with an Olympic teammate, a man. We were passed from behind by a cyclist who recognized me and congratulated me on my performances in Rio. My running companion immediately commented that the cyclist clearly recognized me by my behind.

I'm one of the fastest distance runners in Canada, male or female. I have a very distinct running stride. I was probably the only woman in Toronto running at that pace at that time, but my teammate decided to minimize and dismiss the compliment I had received and tie it to my body. I don't pretend to know the intent behind his words but I have come to learn that it's not the intent of our words that always matters, it's their effect. We look at action over intent.

If we'd like to see actual change in high-performance women's sport in Canada, we need entities like the COC and Sport Canada to step in when a policy or criterion is issued that places a higher burden on women. If you, our government, want to see women continue to develop in sport and see our female population living healthy and active lifestyles, there need to be checks and balances on our federations. Sport Canada and the COC cannot turn a blind eye and say the conflict is solely between the athlete and her federation. If we want to see continued change and growth in women and sport, it needs to happen at all levels. Our teammates need to see us and treat us as equals. Our governing bodies and administrators need to understand our development.

We still have a relatively short history of women in sport, in Canada and worldwide. We need to see ourselves as equals and stop asking for permission. I'm done asking for permission to be seen as an equal on or off the field, and I think we're starting to see that women in sport are demanding it as well.

Thank you.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much.

We go to our order of questioning, beginning with Mr. Vandal for seven minutes, please.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Thank you very much.

First of all, I offer my deepest respect to both of you. I did compete when I was a younger man, in boxing actually, and I've jogged and run for most of my life. I know how difficult it is, so I have the utmost respect for the levels that you have reached.

My question is to Mandy Bujold.

You mentioned that when you were younger you competed but weren't really interested. You dropped out. Could you just expand on that a bit?

12:15 p.m.

Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual

Mandy Bujold

Yes. When I was younger, I had never really considered myself an athlete. Like most parents, my parents tried to put me into different sports. I think the sports they chose were typical sports for a girl—baton twirling or rhythmic gymnastics—and I just didn't enjoy those sport experiences. Maybe it was that I wasn't flexible or that I wasn't good at those sports, so in my mind I just wrote off being an athlete.

I just assumed that there are some people who are athletes, and that if you're an athlete you should be good at every sport. I just wasn't good at the sports I tried, so I automatically concluded I was not an athlete and never really gave much thought to any other sport. It wasn't until I had the opportunity to try boxing, and that was because my brother got involved in it and I saw what he was doing, that I knew I had an interest.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

What was your approximate age at the time you went into the boxing club?

12:15 p.m.

Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Having been in many clubs, I know that there is a wide array of characters in there. What sort of response did you receive? Did you ever get any disparaging remarks because you were a woman? Just generally, what was the atmosphere like?

12:15 p.m.

Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual

Mandy Bujold

I'm going to be honest; it was very intimidating. When I first went to the boxing club I asked a friend to come with me because I knew that there weren't a lot of girls in the boxing club. I guess I knew this mostly because my brother didn't want me to go to the club with him. I actually had to wait until he quit boxing before I had my opportunity to go.

When he quit, I thought, “Okay, I'm going to do this,” and I asked one of my friends to come.

Initially, it was intimidating. You have to keep up with the guys; it's not girls and guys. You're an athlete when you're in the boxing gym, but there were definitely coaches who didn't like females in the gym.

I remember a few times being in the ring sparring and being kicked out of the ring for no reason. Later, they came and told me that it was because they just didn't know how to talk to female athletes or how to handle them in the boxing gym.

I think a lot of that has changed now. I think you see female boxing throughout Canada. But initially, even before we were an Olympic sport, it was difficult. There was a lot of “You shouldn't box,” “You're too pretty to box,” or “Why would you come into a boxing gym?” It was tough but it was something I really enjoyed and I wanted to do.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

I have a couple of questions. At the time, were you sparring with men or with boys, or did you exclusively spar with women?

12:20 p.m.

Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual

Mandy Bujold

No, we sparred with both.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

You must have made a connection with a good coach who was inspirational to you at one point?

12:20 p.m.

Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual

Mandy Bujold

Yes. Initially, I had a very good coach who was working with me and who taught me a lot of the basics, but I will be honest that at the very beginning I didn't want to get into the ring. I just wanted to learn the sport of boxing for fitness. It wasn't until after about a year of training that I wanted to get in and spar. The coaches always used to ask me, and I would make excuses, like I had a headache that day, I forgot my mouthpiece, or whatever it was to get out of sparring. When coaches took the time to teach me properly and I learned proper defence and learned the skills behind it, then I created this love for the sport, and then I wanted to be the one getting into the ring.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Were role models inspirational to you to box, either female or male?

12:20 p.m.

Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual

Mandy Bujold

There were a few people, in particular, I do remember seeing in the boxing gym. I remember seeing one girl who was training on a provincial team, I saw her sparring with the guys, and I remember looking at her and thinking, “That is so cool, I want to be that girl”. There was a national team athlete who was going into the coaching side of things and who was coaching me on the side, doing some running, and teaching me more about being an athlete, As I said, I didn't know anything about running, weightlifting, or whatever. She gave me her insights into that, so it definitely played a big role for me.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Thank you, Mandy.

I have a final question for Lanni. You mentioned they keep moving the goalposts. Could you explain what exactly you meant by that? There's only about a minute and a half left.

12:20 p.m.

Athlete, Athletics Canada, As an Individual

Lanni Marchant

As I mentioned, before Krista and I competed, we hadn't had women run the marathon since 1996. That's not to say we haven't had women who were competitive by the IOC and IAAF standard, it's just that Canada kept setting the standard faster. In 2012, I missed the team, and so did Krista. In 2013, we both made the world championship team, with a slightly relaxed standard. That gave us the opportunity to compete on the world scene. Since then, I've made other teams.

We saw that with the 2016 Olympic criteria, we were right back to where we started in 2012 to make these teams. Everyone has celebrated what Krista and I have accomplished in women's running, and I've become a role model, whether I set out to or not. I've inspired all these girls, and we have so many marathoners coming up who are in their late twenties and early thirties who could make these teams, but Athletics Canada came back and set the goalpost back to 2:29:55, which is faster than 2012. When we competed in Rio, we performed really well, and then 2017 comes along and our standards come out and they're back to being fast again.

The goal is to inspire. If the new movement here is to inspire girls, to have representation, and to have athletes like me be these role models, then they're going to see us out there competing. Krista and I are the only two women in the country who can run these qualifying times. We're the only two women in the country who have been able to do it since 1996. When I set the record, it was a 28-year-old record at the time. If you want women to participate, and if you want young girls to think they can go and compete at the Olympics, whether it's in running or other events or other sports, then you have to stop setting standards that eliminate us and that take your top women out, and that's what I mean by them moving the goalposts back.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Right. Okay, thank you.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you.

Mr. Kitchen, for the Conservatives.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, both, for coming. Thank you for being great Canadian ambassadors in the Rio Olympics, and for a job well done.

I'm going to ask you both a question. I'm going to ask you to reflect on when you were in your teens, or even before that. Part of what we've been studying here is participation and how we're going to get women and girls involved in sport. How do we encourage them to continue to participate in sport as they grow, as they age, and as they mature. We want to find ways of doing it. I'm just asking if both of you could think back to that and maybe give us a very quick answer as to what was going through your mind at that time as to why you didn't want to participate in sport or why you did.

As you mentioned, Mandy, you said that your parents got you involved with maybe less traditional sporting-type events or activities. Would you mind doing that?

I'll ask Mandy to go first.

12:25 p.m.

Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual

Mandy Bujold

At that age, when a lot of girls are dropping out of sport, sometimes it could actually be from their bodies' changing. Maybe you're good at a sport when you're a lot younger, and as you get a little older, you're not so good at that sport, so then you just drop out of sport.

There are a lot of things that can be done. I didn't find that sport that was interesting for me, but maybe there needs to be an option out there just for training and keeping girls active. I was at an event the other day with a group called IVIVVA, and there was a group that showed up called GIFT, Girls in Fitness Training. They were explaining to me that if a girl is not in a specific sport, there's nowhere for them to go. There's the YMCA, which I think is the only option around for young girls.

This organization was really neat to me, because it introduced girls to different sports just about every week, with different fitness training. If girls are fit they're active and they're more likely to get involved in sport. They're going to be more confident, and they're going to get out there and try different things. That's going to increase our participation in sport.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you, Mandy.

Lanni.

12:25 p.m.

Athlete, Athletics Canada, As an Individual

Lanni Marchant

I started out in sport as a figure skater, so I was very much the pretty little girl in the pretty little box. I skated up until I was about 15 or 16. I transitioned into running because I liked running. When you crossed the finish line, you knew where you stood. You knew if you won; you knew if you didn't. It didn't matter what you looked like crossing the finish line. Obviously, that message spoke to me, and I think it needs to speak to other women and girls in sport, that it's not how we look doing what we're doing.

I spoke right before the Olympics about what I do being fierce and sexy, not how I look doing it. What we've seen in mainstream media, and even from some of our title sponsors, is about the attractiveness of a female athlete, what our bodies look like in an attractive way. By all means, if you want to comment on my behind, comment on it because of the muscular way it's built. If an athlete has broad shoulders and muscular arms, it doesn't make her any less feminine.

When you're a teenager, and your body is transitioning—and I saw it a lot from a figure skating world to a running world—you don't want your body commented on. You see us all start putting on bigger clothes and hiding our bodies. Until the sporting world learns how to connect and come forward and comment on our being strong people, and not try to put us in pretty little boxes.... I think that's where we're losing girls. Our bodies are ours, and we're really shy and awkward at that age.

I wanted something where you couldn't comment on my body; you could comment on my performance.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you for that.

I'm a rugby player, and I have coached women's rugby. I've found that sometimes, particularly in rugby, young women who are participating in it said, “Ah, you're just a butch”. It actually comes from women, to women. Their peers are saying that to them. How do we change that? Granted, I understand your comments about when a man does that, but how do we stop women from saying it? Part of it is that they need to recognize they need to be active as well, but how do we stop that?

12:25 p.m.

Athlete, Athletics Canada, As an Individual

Lanni Marchant

Girls are mean. We're harder on ourselves than any man's ever going to be on us. It's to address it across the board.

If we stop having men comment on our behinds and taking away and being dismissive of what we've accomplished because of how we look, we'll learn to stop picking at each other as well. More women like Mandy and me could speak up and say, “Talk to me about being an athlete”. I'm an athlete first when I'm competing; I'm a woman second. I've always said that, and I very much believe it.

It's a matter of getting into the schools and teaching girls that our self-esteem doesn't come from putting each other down. It's how we've been raised, and it's how the men around us have been raised as well. You knock somebody down to build yourself up, whether it's about gender or within gender. We talked about transgender. If it's different, we comment, and if we want to make ourselves feel better, we comment in a negative way.

It's to get at the ground root and build up—gender-wise or not.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

Mandy, you indicated that you're coaching now. What challenges have you had in trying to accomplish coaching as well as your life—your job, your social life—and getting your certification levels?