Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 1st, 2016

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'd like to bring the discussion back to rural regions, minorities, and seniors. If they aren't hooked up to the Internet, do they receive essential government information? That worries me a great deal. Can you give me any reassurance on that issue?

[Marc Saint-Pierre]

Madam Chair, I am pleased to tell the member that, last week, the assistant deputy minister gave the go-ahead for an independent firm to conduct a detailed analysis of how people in minority communities learn about Government of Canada advertising, as compared with the rest of the population. The goal is to find out whether differences exist. If so, we want to know what they are. The findings of that study will be made public, as is proper. They will be shared with the people in our advertising communications community.

If minority communities learn about Government of Canada advertising through different means, knowing that will be very useful for future ad campaigns. The study is expected to begin in the next few months, in 2017. I have earmarked a budget specifically for this study. It's important to know whether these communities behave differently, and we will adapt accordingly. As I said, the study should begin in the next few months.

As with all public opinion studies and research, the findings will be available on the Library and Archives Canada website.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

My question will be on the same theme. You explained something earlier. I understand that trying to determine whether rural or minority regions are targeted in advertising is not your responsibility. You said that it was the responsibility of Canadian Heritage or other departments. I would see a problem with this if the entire initial analysis was not available and no attempt was made to find anything out.

I have an example. Normally, basic investments are for everyone, but afterwards, they are enhanced to target a problematic location. According to what you said, that does not seem to be done. Help me understand.

[Marc Saint-Pierre]

I want to remind you that Canadian Heritage has a subsidy program to help periodicals. If memory serves, we are talking about $75 million annually.

One of the mandates of Ms. de Jourdan's team is to ensure that, when campaigns are submitted to us, Canada's two linguistic communities will have reasonable access to that information. Ideally, it would be in the same media outlet and over the same period of time.

I will conclude by saying that we don't receive many complaints from Canadians telling us that they have not had access to Government of Canada advertising. The complaint letters I have received rather indicate the opposite. People have written to say that there was too much Government of Canada advertising.

However, I can tell you that, if we were to receive such a complaint, it would be treated very seriously because one of our objectives is to ensure compliance with the Official Languages Act. No compromise can be made in that regard.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Those kinds of complaints would probably pertain to the last 10 years. That was a quick point I wanted to make.

[Marc Saint-Pierre]

I have been in office for 10 years. I cannot talk about the years preceding my arrival.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That said, as my colleagues mentioned earlier, I dislike the fact that U.S. media don't pay taxes. That's a huge source of concern for me. What has earned them that privilege? I think that is a problem, and it should also be a concern for the government.

[Marc Saint-Pierre]

This has more to do with my colleagues from finance and revenue departments.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I just wanted to support my colleagues' view.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

We will go to Mr. Nantel for five minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

When we undertake a study, we often receive information from our analysts, such as Mr. Ménard. I love the way he structures his sentences, his word juxtaposition. It's beautiful.

So I will use one of the suggested questions: “The annual reports on the Government of Canada's advertising activities prepared by Public Services and Procurement Canada for the last five years show that the Government of Canada is turning more and more to online media and new media for advertising. What are the reasons for this decision [in your opinion]?”

I know you will tell me that you are not the one making decisions, but you still coordinate those purchases. How do you explain that?

[Louise de Jourdan]

You are asking why we are turning to new media and the Internet for advertising. I have prepared for that question.

As we explained earlier, the objective of an advertising campaign is to reach the target audience, while taking into account other considerations, such as budgets. As you know, budgets have been pretty tight lately.

That is why, first and foremost, we choose media that are used more by Canadians. Here are some statistics: 71% of Canadians with a Facebook account use it at least twice a week; 50% of them use it daily, and that figure goes up to 74% for younger people; 49% of people are on YouTube. The figure is slightly lower—27%—in the case of Twitter. And the list goes on.

As you said regarding television, it's really a mechanism that reaches Canadians, on the one hand. On the other hand, it's less expensive. We can do so much with very little money. You have probably heard from industry people that, when they create a good website to sell advertising, their revenue is higher than it was when advertising was printed on paper. That is because it's much cheaper on the Internet.

Another element is very important and that is the fact that results are instant. Most advertising campaigns are a drive to web.

We want people, after seeing the advertising, to go on the Internet for more information, perhaps to find registration forms for programs and services. Through the Internet, or using a mobile phone, people can instantly go on the desired website and complete the process.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

We often go on even if we don't want to.

[Louise de Jourdan]

Exactly. It leads to a certain behaviour, on the one hand. On the other hand, it is possible to get a multiplier effect in the sense that most of those platforms invite people to share information. With all due respect, it is rare for someone to take a newspaper, cut out an advertisement, make photocopies and distribute them to a number of people. With digital platforms such as social media, it's possible to do so. In addition, it's a way to support the action of someone we respect. The multiplier effect is even stronger.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Of course. It's as if I said to someone that a Hyundai is a good car and they should buy it.

[Marc Saint-Pierre]

Madam Chair, I want to add for the member's benefit that digital advertising pays by the click. The more people click on it, the more money comes in.

When I would buy a quarter of a page of advertising in the Saint-Bruno newspaper, I didn't know how many people would see the advertisement and how many of them would remember it. That is another phenomenon that did not exist 25 years ago.

[Louise de Jourdan]

There are results.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I don't doubt that.

[Louise de Jourdan]

It's highly measurable.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Can I ask you whether you have relevant figures or measurements related to, for example, advertising? We are, after all, talking about a perspective that has to do with this issue.

I am fully aware that your mandate is not to give charity to the media that ask you for assistance. Your role is to ensure the communication of government activities and government programs. All that is quite clear. However, I just want to also ensure that social media are not leading us down the garden path. Basically, do you have any figures on the big billboards we see along the highway?

I live in Longueuil. I come to Montreal almost every day and I see big billboards. Do those billboards still have an impact on people? That is certainly difficult to measure. However, people see them. There probably is an impact when people see an advertisement on an event, which is sort of the equivalent of the full-page advertisement they used to see in a newspaper.

Are there any figures that indicate that, for example, CBS Affichage and Zoom Media are dying in their advertising market.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Nantel.

I'm afraid we cannot get a response to that because we've finished our five minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I want to thank the department for coming.

One thing I wanted to point out is that, in certain parts of this very large country, we do not have access to the Internet. We know that by geography alone there are areas that do not have access, so is there a way you reach those areas? We hear that local communities in those areas do not have any access to that kind of information—government information, that is—never mind any other kind of information.

Have you done any analysis of how you can reach those areas?

[Louise de Jourdan]

It's really important to understand, as I think I stated at the beginning, that it's very rare that you would have an advertising campaign that rides alone. It's usually part of a broader communication strategy that includes a whole host of other mechanisms, so just looking at the advertising by itself would be unfortunate because there are usually additional mechanisms that are used such as public relations and so on, to make sure that there is coverage in all the areas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

My question really is, how do you know whether you reach those areas? Are you doing an analysis of that? Are you checking to see that you have reached those areas? Again, the whole idea is your reach, the ability to reach people who are not going to be reached in the usual manner. That's what we're trying to understand.