Evidence of meeting #35 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Nancy Lee  As an Individual
Brenda Andress  Commissioner, Canadian Women’s Hockey League
Shannon Donovan  Executive Director, Football Canada
Tracey Ferguson  Paralympic Athlete, As an Individual
Erica Gravel  Paralympic Athlete, As an Individual
Whitney Bogart  Paralympic Athlete, As an Individual
Shelley Gauthier  Paralympic Athlete, As an Individual
Martin Richard  Executive Director, Communications and Marketing, Canadian Paralympic Committee

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

Brenda.

11:35 a.m.

Commissioner, Canadian Women’s Hockey League

Brenda Andress

I think the way we've learned, through the research of trying to grow the youth game—and we've just come up with it this year—is that we're hosting the first ever Clarkson Cup peewee championship. We're trying to bring peewee teams from across Canada to Ottawa, because this is where our Clarkson Cup is held this year, and engage them in being involved with our athletes.

They come into town, get an opportunity to see our women play the game, and get to hear our women talk about the challenges and barriers they've overcome to accomplish what they want in their life. We all know at the front of the stats that women quit sports at the age of 13 and 14. That's when they stop exercising, and it's when they stop being involved. It's all about peer pressure, media pressure, because of whatever they see, and right now social media is not about sports. It's about fashion and different things.

I think we also have a mandate within us as a professional league, and we try to create these opportunities for young girls.

I'll go back to my first point where I still say that if there is a career opportunity, young girls will continue because whether it's as a commissioner or a player, when there is a career there.... Young men will tell you that from the day they were born, when their fathers put them in front of the TV, they were going to grow up to be NHL players and make money and if they couldn't be an NHL player, they were going to be the GM or the scout. It starts at a very young age, and we have to do the same thing for young girls to continue to get them to participate.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

Shannon, I'm not going to let you answer this question because I have one for you specifically, but if you want to chip in on that, you're welcome to.

You talked about communicating and in particular, I liked your comment about clinics and having women versus men giving the clinics because then they're going to respond to it and it's a greater environment. They're feeling safe in that environment and they can do that presentation.

What challenges do you see in football to get those coaches, those refs, and those trainers?

11:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Football Canada

Shannon Donovan

One challenge is purely the number of females who have been involved in the game earlier in their lives. Most don't have the experience. What I saw in hockey was that a lot of them had played the game but were a little hesitant to coach or officiate, but then they did come out, whereas with football, we have very few females who grew up with the sport. That's the biggest challenge.

The second one is...just the number of female facilitators would be another challenge. We now have a group of females. Our first world championship was in 2010, and that has helped significantly in the growth of football in Saskatchewan. Now we have a group of females who we're dedicating time to getting them trained and on the sidelines, as well as in the classroom, and encouraging younger females to participate.

I think the biggest challenge with us is purely that they don't have the history of being on the field, or anywhere involved in the sport, other than probably watching the game on TV with their dad.

Going back to your first question, I think in football we have an opportunity on the female side, because although females do quit at the age of 13, at the same time, a lot of them participate for social reasons. If their friends are doing it, they might do it, and if they were not allowed to play when they were younger, especially male-dominated sports because their parents didn't encourage them or there wasn't the opportunity, they probably have a little more say in what they can do when they get to 13 or 14 years of age.

Football is a huge program in high schools. Students want to be involved in their sports programs, so if we can get female programming on flag football in the high schools, I think there would be an increase in participation, especially by that 13-year-old through 16-year-old age group. This is what we see in Saskatchewan, and what we see starting in Manitoba. B.C. is also starting with the same program, and Nova Scotia is looking into it. It allows them to be a part of the school program and be with their friends, and participate in a sport that they might have always wanted to from a distance, but didn't have the opportunity.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Maguire

Thank you.

We'll have to move to Mr. Nantel.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I can only sympathize with this reality of semi-pro sports, like the Ottawa Fury team having games with the Club de soccer de Longueuil, in Longueuil, Quebec, and they actually pay to have their games on air.

To me, this is like a decision that's been reversed by the CRTC. Were you saying this was in the mid-eighties or the nineties?

11:40 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Lee

No. The clarification is that they never told them they couldn't ask an organization to pay, but what they did is they—and I'm going to use the word—required the private broadcasters to spend cash on amateur sports coverage.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Okay.

You did say, according to you, that there were two major things, peer influence and media influence. Can you give us some great examples?

I think that, in general, we're very hard on women. Just think about the last media frenzy in Quebec.

The big storm in Quebec these days was after Safia Nolin received an award at the last ADISQ gala. People were bashing her about anything, about the way she dressed, about the words she used. If she had been a guy, 80% of that would be out.

Regarding Eugenie Bouchard,

people are storming on her like crazy.

Are there any good moments where women have been scoring, and with what event? I'm not very familiar with sports, but the reality is that we need champions. We don't need champions in the sports, but we need champions of that cause to rally around and to say, wow.

I keep thinking about this, and I don't know what you guys think about Danica Patrick, the NASCAR driver. To me, she's doing a marvellous job, because she is just as good as the other guys and she has all this exposure, all these commercial sponsors on her car.

What are great examples to follow?

11:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Football Canada

Shannon Donovan

One of my best examples is when I was working for Hockey Canada. We used to run the Chev safe and fun program with Cassie Campbell, Bobby Orr, and Mike Bossy. We used to go to these events. The kids had no idea who Bobby Orr was or who Mike Bossy was—it got the parents there—but the players would chant Cassie's name.

Cassie had come off the Olympics and was in the media. She is a promoter, and I know she helps with the Scotiabank HockeyFest, but these were boys, and they were chanting Cassie's name. They had no idea who Bobby Orr was. I realized why they brought Bobby Orr out—to bring the parents.

I could not believe how many of the little boys knew who Cassie was. It was because they had won the Olympic gold, and they were on TV. They knew who she was.

11:40 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Lee

I am going to take it a step further. Again, it's a recommendation.

In New Zealand.... This is when they took on the media. When Eugenie Bouchard was in Australia and was asked to twirl, it came out as “Twirlgate”. New Zealand has the same situation we do: A lot of women are winning medals, but they are not getting coverage. What they did was couple with universities to do media research. This has been done before. CAAWS did it in the 1990s, looking at it after the Olympics—how it was covered, the portrayal. That's what I mean about the twirl. It's not the quantity, but the quality of it. They looked at all of this in New Zealand, but the difference is that they sat down with the key newspapers and broadcasters, and said, “You know, we looked at this, and this is what you're doing.”

It goes back to what I said before. It's not on their radar. They put it on the radar, and it has made a difference. They are doing it every year. It's truly one that I think we can pick up. I don't have to tell you folks, but you can't tell the media what to do. You have to get them onside and influence them. It's a perfect way of doing it, and they have proven that it works.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

We've had a lot of interest to have people like you, Ms. Lee, anchorwomen, head of the news department for sports and stuff.

I can't remember the name of the blonde female reporter for the Canadiens game every night, in French, on Radio-Canada. Still, there is Chantal Machabée at RDS or Marie-José Turcotte at Radio-Canada.

Can this have a positive influence and impel the female audience to get involved more and to see that there is still some space?

11:45 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Lee

I'm not sure they can. It's only if someone wants to actually go into the sports media and say, “There is a woman doing this.” I think the influence is really behind the scenes.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

A coach....

11:45 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Lee

This isn't good news, but I'm the only woman in the world who has ever done this job at the CBC. I'm the only woman in the world who has ever hosted broadcasting, and no one has done it since. That's not good.

When I was there, I made sure that women were scheduled, that their events were scheduled, and that there was equal sponsorship money. You didn't get on the air, all of that. You need somebody in there.

I would suggest that you need it behind the scenes, and then you need the Cassies, the Wiebes, and that gang in terms of that reference check.

11:45 a.m.

Commissioner, Canadian Women’s Hockey League

Brenda Andress

What we are seeing right now with these sports broadcasters is that they are doing male sports. We are putting in a female broadcaster, yet we don't have them doing the play-by-play yet—which is coming, they tell me. We are seeing them, but they are not sitting in Ron MacLean's chair. With Sportsnet, TSN, or anybody, if you look at the table of who's talking about hockey at nighttime, you'll see that it's still all male.

Yes, we should put those females in there, but give them a position that's equal, and give them the opportunity to broadcast. When you are doing broadcasting, and you give a percentage—exactly what Nancy is saying.... Have women broadcast women's games so that young girls can see that.

One other thing, in some of your questions.... It's very difficult for women to participate in amateur sport, whether it's swimming, hockey, or anything else, when every time they turn their head the coach they see is a male. The aspect is that this is who should be coaching, the male.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Maguire

Thank you very much. I hate to cut you off there, but we have to go to Mr. O'Regan.

November 3rd, 2016 / 11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Nancy, it's nice to work with you again, in a way. I'm sure that at the Olympics in 2010 you had 18,000 screens in front of you, and I'm proud to say that I occupied one of them at four in the morning, but you probably weren't watching.

11:45 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

That's fine. It's forgiven.

From my particular point of view, it's great to have you here, because I'm obviously quite interested, as is my colleague, I'm sure, on how women are treated in these broadcasts. We've raised this question several times, but I obviously am very interested in your particular feedback on Rio, because for many people it was seen as a bit of a revelation that suddenly the country seemed to be quite enamoured, more enamoured than usual, with its female athletes and with how successful they were.

What we've heard since, not to colour whatever you're about to say, is that we still have a long way to go. I guess I just wanted both your personal and your professional thoughts on how you feel that Rio was covered from the gender lens.

11:45 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Lee

I was in Rio, so I didn't see what CBC and Radio-Canada were putting on, but I followed them online. My experience—that was my 14th Games in terms of working at them, not competing, but working, unfortunately—is that I have never been inundated with and have never seen so much disgruntlement and frustration with the portrayal of female athletes in those 14 years.

Now, I think a little bit of it is the social media. There's more access, and there's more talk back and forth. Also, there are circumstances where my colleagues at CBC, the commentators—again, I don't know about Radio-Canada—fell down, again, in terms of how you're looking at the women competing. From that perspective, it was absolutely abysmal.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

What do you mean, Nancy, by falling down?

11:50 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Lee

On falling down, an American newspaper said that this is the day that “Penny and Simone” tied, which is never, of course...and I apologize for not knowing Simone's last name, and that's wrong. On the front page in the newspaper, there was a huge picture of Michael Phelps, and the headline was that Michael Phelps wins silver, and the first African-American to win gold...and what came out of it is that she has a name. That's part of it.

Another one was a shot of a swimmer going up and down the pool, and then a shot to the coach, the male, the husband, in the spectators—

11:50 a.m.

A voice

Yes, the husband.

11:50 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Lee

—and the commentator said, “There's the person responsible for that world medal.” No. She's swimming. He's not. He's probably going to have a beer. She's the one who is responsible for the medal. It was like that was time and time again.

My last example of it is in gymnastics with the Dutch gal that beat out the Americans. She got off the beam, went over, and wrote in her book, and the commentator said, “Dear Diary...”. Do you know what she was writing down? She was writing down her scores and all the other scores, because she's following each one of them to know if she's going to win—not “Dear Diary”.

It was abysmal, absolutely abysmal.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

So what do you do? I know you have, what, eight other recommendations, and frankly, I'd like to give you the time.