Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 21st, 2017

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

We'll turn to Mr. Brassard for seven minutes.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, welcome, Mr. White, to committee.

I'm fortunate that I have two Legions, one directly in my riding, the Lefroy-Belle Ewart Legion, which is a smaller Legion, but no less effective in dealing with issues of veterans, and of course, the Barrie Legion, which is a much bigger Legion. I've had the opportunity to be at both and to help celebrate Remembrance Day services, among other occasions, as well.

I want to thank you for the work that you do, that the Legion does, across the country. In my role as critic for veterans affairs, I've had the opportunity to go out and deal with several Legions. It's just amazing to me the support that your organization gives to veterans. I want to personally thank you for that.

You've been dealing with this issue for a long time. It sounds to me as though there's a real concern that we may move from the legal to the statutory aspect of the holidays. I'm going to give you an opportunity to expand on that, based on either previous testimony you've given or how your membership feels about that.

[Brad White]

I guess our primary concern—and we've experienced this here in Ottawa as well at the national Remembrance Day ceremony—is with stores downtown opening up. We've come to a deal with the stores downtown, the business association in the city, and city council as well, to make sure no stores will open until after, I think, 12 o'clock in the city, because of the observance of Remembrance Day ceremonies. We feel that making things statutory holidays is going to whittle away the real significance of the day and people taking that time to remember.

I go back to when we reinstituted the two-minute wave of silence across the country. We started in St. John's, Newfoundland. In days gone by, there was always two minutes of silence, but because of our time-crunch society, we went to one minute. Quite a few years ago, we went back to the two minutes of silence. We started in St. John's, Newfoundland, and we rolled it out across the country, through all the provincial capitals. People would again become aware of the significance of remembrance.

We've just spent 10 years in Afghanistan with 158 casualties, so it's more relevant today to younger Canadians than it ever has been in the past. When I stood on parade, I always thought about my grandfather's generation. My father was standing by for the Korean War. To me, those were veterans. Today, it's a younger generation, and there's a whole new resurgence of remembrance that's come up because it is younger Canadians now. Bringing people home along the Highway of Heroes has also had an impact on Canadians. We send people across and overseas to do our various biddings, and we have to pay tribute to them. We have to bring them home that way.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

You testified in front of the committee last year. The latest convention, I believe you said, was held in 2016, where you reaffirmed this. Since Bill C-311 has been introduced, have you heard from any of your members, from any of the Legions, with respect to this proposed legislation?

[Brad White]

No, we have not.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Okay.

Finally, we're always looking at ways to improve things for our veterans. I'm going to give you an opportunity now to speak to that. In the short time we have—so you need to be succinct in your answer—what do we need to do to help our veterans?

[Brad White]

I didn't think this was ACVA.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

That's okay.

[Brad White]

That's okay...?

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I can ask whatever I want.

[Brad White]

Particularly for this committee, I would say that if you talk to veterans, you'll hear that they want recognition. How do we recognize their efforts when we send them overseas? How do we recognize their sacrifices? There are things such as an Afghanistan memorial that's being debated, I think, at this stage in the game.

You can talk to a younger veteran—certainly not me—but somebody who has been in Afghanistan recently. First off, they don't consider themselves to be veterans, because veterans are that generation.... When you say to them that they've done their service and they're out of the military now, and you ask them what they would like to have happen, they say, “We just want to be recognized for our sacrifices and for the duty we did.”

That's all it is. It's the recognition, whether it be a public or a private recognition. They do get a medal for their service in a combat theatre, but it's about that public recognition and the acceptance of the fact that they went there and did a job that not many Canadians volunteered to do. That's really what they want: recognition.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. White.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you, Mr. Brassard.

Now we'll go to Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Mr. White. You were in the room when I brought up—

Do you understand French?

[Brad White]

Just a little. My spouse and children are Quebeckers.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

So you understand French very well. Perfect.

I'm fully aware of the importance of this. Observing a minute of silence or periods of 11 seconds of silence throughout isn't too much to ask, and is feasible.

My question isn't for you, but for our analysts. Is the translation of the paragraph from English into French optimal? I don't want to put you on the spot, but that's what I'm doing anyway. I'm sorry.

It constantly fascinates me. We voted on the motion earlier. We changed the wording in French because it wasn't correct. The wording the Conservatives used wasn't at all the same in French as in English.

It's very different for the bill we're studying. I'm not bilingual enough to see exactly what the difference is between “kept and observed” and “célébré”. When I see the word “célébration”, I think of Loto-Québec and balloons. It adds a festive aspect to the thing.

Here's what I think your main motivation is. You want this to be a time when people become aware of the sacrifices that have been made in the course of history. You don't want people to go out and drink beer in a park and sit around. I understand that. I don't know how we can word all of this.

Maybe I'm dreaming in technicolour, or maybe I'm coming at it with a sledgehammer, but I would take away the aspect of the holiday that is mentioned when it says “November 11 falls on a Saturday or a Sunday” because it looks like an extended weekend. If I were you, I wouldn't include that sentence. Ideally, you want schools to be involved. I think that's what the veterans want. You want the younger generations and the whole population to be aware of this.

It would be desirable for November 11 to fall on a weekday, so that children are at school, but if it falls on the weekend, it would be okay too. This may not be the case next year. Perhaps we can live with this more easily.

Your concern is to keep things as simple as possible. I suggest that the proposed subclause 3(2) be removed from the bill. Subclause 3(3) provides for the Canadian flag at half-mast on the Peace Tower. That seems manageable. Probably for stylistic reasons, the wording of proposed subclause 3(1) is reversed from the English version.

Mr. White, I'm coming back to you because surely you are more bilingual than I am. Is there a difference in intention between the words “célébré” and “kept and observed”?

[Brad White]

If I may, I would like to clarify that the appropriate word for us is “commémorer”.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Instead of “célébrer”?

[Brad White]

Yes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Suppose we agree on an amendment and go with the word “commémorer”. I assume you'd be more comfortable with that. You asked earlier why it was useful to clarify this aspect. The answer is that we would stop talking about it and take action. It would be nice if things were done and we moved on.

So if the word “commémorer” replaces the word “célébrer”, if point 2 is removed, if we agree that there won't be a de facto holiday—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

We're having trouble with our translation here.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

The main issue is that if we switch “celebrate” to “commemorate” in the French aspect, if we skip number two, and if we agree that there is no statutory holiday to come with that legal status, would you be inclined to see a different thing, or do you just not want...?

[Brad White]

I have to give my impression from the policy that we have, and that would be no. We would not be inclined to accept that terminology, because we don't want it to be seen as a holiday. We want it to be seen as a special day when the country remembers.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

What makes it seen as a holiday?

[Brad White]

We don't want Remembrance Day labelled as a holiday.