Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 21st, 2017

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

To bring it back to basics, we just want the same definition of a “legal holiday” for these three distinct events, Victoria Day, July 1.... It's just the same wording, and the application remains variable province to province. That's your point.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Exactly.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you.

As it's the chairman's prerogative, Mr. Fraser, I have a quick question.

Have you had any businesses praise or have concerns about your bill?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I've had businesses only praise the bill, thinking along the lines of any Canadian that it's important that we appropriately mark Remembrance Day. If we can elevate the status or raise the profile of it, it's a good thing. I've had no negative comments with regard to it costing businesses more, because of course my bill doesn't affect days off.

If other provinces decide to look at that again, I'm sure there will be lots to say from the small business community, and I understand that debate has to play out.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

I agree with your first comment in your opening comments today that the respect that we have in Canada didn't happen by accident, didn't happen by luck, I think you said, and these things take some time to work through. There's no one here today who I've heard who has any dispute about respect for our veterans.

Mr. Samson, you have a final comment.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Yes. There's consistency, but there's also leadership. How does a government define that Canada Day is less important than Remembrance Day? That's a statutory holiday. What's the reasoning behind it? I think having it consistent is saying that the federal government is viewing those three holidays as being extremely important in Canada. Let the provinces do what they choose with them, but as a Canadian government, we're being consistent in saying those three days are extremely important to us as a country.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Fraser, for your presentation today. Our time is up. We'll take a quick break while we change witnesses.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, everyone. I appreciate it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

We're going to bring things to order here, folks.

I mentioned earlier that we have couple of minutes of in-house business to do, committee business, at the end of the meeting that I'll be calling you in camera for. It'll take a few minutes.

I want to give Mr. White due time for his presentation. The questions that we've had have been very good.

I want to welcome Mr. White here today as the Dominion secretary for Dominion command of the Royal Canadian Legion.

I will give you the lay of the land here as well. We'll give you 10 minutes for your presentation. The first round of questions will be seven minutes, including the answers, and then we'll go to five minutes for as long as we have after that. We'll try to wrap up around 5:20 p.m.

With that, I will turn it over to you, Mr. White, for your presentation. Thank you.

[Brad White, Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion]

Honourable vice-chair and members of the committee, good afternoon and thank you very much for inviting the Royal Canadian Legion to appear before the committee to speak on Bill C-311, an act to amend the Holidays Act, regarding Remembrance Day.

On behalf of our president David Flannigan and our 275,000 members, I'm expressing my pleasure at being here. As explained, I'm Brad White, the Dominion secretary of the Royal Canadian Legion. For the past 20 years, I have been involved in every major commemorative activity that the Legion has participated in, as well as being the former director of Canada's national Remembrance Day ceremony.

The Legion's position is that November 11 not be a legal or a statutory holiday, and therefore I will be speaking against Bill C-311.

I'd like to give you a little background information. Such positions and other matters of Legion policy result from resolutions passed at a Dominion convention following consultation and debate at all three levels of our organization.

This procedure for enacting change in the Legion starts at the branch level, where any member can propose a change in policy or administrative procedure that could affect the entire organization. Following a review and discussion by all members within the branch, the resolution passes to the provincial command level. At the provincial command level and at their convention the delegates from within that jurisdiction further consider and discuss the proposed resolution. If the delegates concur, the resolution is submitted to the Dominion command at the national level for our national convention, and this is the third and final level of consultation and debate. If passed by the Dominion convention, which is attended by delegates from all branches, all provincial commands in the organization, the resolution becomes an adopted policy or approved procedure within the Royal Canadian Legion.

As you can see, such matters receive thorough consideration and undergo debate throughout all levels of the organization.

The holiday status of Remembrance Day has been debated at numerous Dominion conventions throughout the Legion's history, in fact, 15 times since 1970 and most recently at our 2016 Dominion convention. At this Dominion convention the Legion's position against Remembrance Day being a statutory holiday was reaffirmed. We remain concerned that Canadians, given time off as a legal holiday, may not take the time to remember and that it may simply become a mid-week break or just another part of a long weekend.

The latter situation relates specifically to the discussion of the 1978 Dominion convention, which focused on how government departments of the day treated November 11 as a floating holiday to give their employees a long weekend. This must never be allowed to happen again.

We have heard an interpretation of what a legal holiday is and that making Remembrance Day a legal holiday would not designate it as a statutory holiday. The semantics of such interpretations are subjective. One needs only to look at the news media reporting on the progress of previous bills on this matter to see how it is a commonplace position that statutory holiday status is exactly what this bill would achieve.

The perception is further validated by association as the bill would serve to designate Remembrance Day the same as Canada Day and Victoria Day, both of which are legal holidays in the Holidays Act with each also being a statutory holiday. If it is not the intent of this bill to make Remembrance Day a statutory holiday, if designating it as a legal holiday only would not change its current status according to the interpretation provided by the Library of Parliament and reported to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, then why would we propose such a current bill?

Perhaps what is needed is to raise the awareness and understanding of Remembrance Day, which could be achieved through an educational strategy. It is paramount that the significance of Remembrance Day be instilled in our youth and the general population to show their respect for the sacrifices of our fallen. To honour this day, many schools hold assemblies, which they organize within their own commemoration programs. Some teachers take students to collectively participate with their peers in ceremonies at local cenotaphs, thereby strengthening the impact and the significance of the 11th of November.

The Legion works very closely with schools throughout the country to provide an educational component about Remembrance Day in addition to welcoming classes at ceremonies. The Legion's teaching guide is an excellent educational tool which has been viewed or downloaded from our website more than one million times.

The Ontario Federation of Home and School Associations expressed strong support for the Legion's position on Remembrance Day. The association noted in the 1960s that Ontarians did observe Remembrance Day as a school holiday. Children remained at home to play, watch television, and enjoy a day of rest. Few were involved in events recognizing the significance of the day. At that time, veterans' groups, school boards, and other organizations, such as the OFHSA, petitioned to have schools remain open on Remembrance Day so that suitable remembrance services could be held in schools to provide students with a better understanding of the purpose and the tribute paid.

As well, last June, when we made a presentation to this very committee, we had Madam Sonia Gallo, from the York Catholic School Board, appear alongside us at the committee meeting on Bill C-597; and she again supported the Legion's position.

So, too, are we encouraged to hear of organized commemorations taking place in workplaces on November 11. We need to make honouring and remembering an important part of our regular routine on November 11, and not simply provide a day off from school or work.

As an example, take Victoria Day, a legal holiday, and question what observances are being held across the country to honour Queen Victoria who, until last year, was Canada's longest-serving monarch. For most, it simply provides a long weekend in May. We should not let Remembrance Day follow the same fate.

We thank you again for this opportunity for the Legion to express our views, and again our organization opposes Bill C-311.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you very much, Mr. White, for your clarity and your presentation.

I will turn this over to Mr. Samson to start the question period.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

Thank you for coming today. We always appreciate having the Legion and Legion members speak to us and share some important feedback on various issues, not just today's issue.

You said you did consult. Obviously, it's not unanimous because it's been discussed on a number of occasions; I think you said 15 times since 1970. Obviously, there are a fairly important number of members who believe that maybe we should look at it differently. That being said, it's not the majority today.

Can you help me understand what question is being asked of the members? Are we simply asking them, “Do you want Remembrance Day to be a holiday?” Do you explain what it means? What is the question you're actually asking your members that allows you to conclude that they don't want...?

[Brad White]

It's actually, as I explained in the presentation, our members who are raising the question to us. We don't pose the questions to them. They raise it from the branch level up. In the construct of the resolution, there are many paragraphs within that resolution that explain the bottom line, which would be their proposition. Their proposition, on the bottom line, would be to make Remembrance Day a statutory holiday. They will go through the many paragraphs that precede that proposition and explain what their position is. That's how the resolution process is done.

As it goes from the branch level up into the command level, the provincial command, it's debated there. Provincial command would then, if accepted, take that resolution up to us at the national level. At the national level we have delegates from all over the country representing all of the Legion branches if they send a delegate to the convention. Again, it's a very democratic process. The actual resolution is debated on the floor of the convention and a vote is taken whether to support or go against the resolution. In every case so far, they have not supported the actual resolution.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Do they realize this change that we're speaking of here, which is simply changing the words to “legal”, is not actually making any changes in their provinces and territories? Do they realize this is not a change?

[Brad White]

While they may realize that, the position of the Legion is that we want kids to be in school. We don't want them out of school. Having served for 23 years here in Ottawa, I did many Remembrance Day assemblies at my kids' school where I was a member of the military. I came in uniform, medalled up, and away we went. We explained the significance of Remembrance Day.

Where you capture the kids is in a school assembly. The school assembly where I was had about 600 kids, and you had them all there and you discussed basically what Remembrance Day was all about. What we want is to capture those kids in school, not to have them out of school.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

But this doesn't add to or subtract from that. This doesn't do that at all. Let me share with you, as a former superintendent of schools, what you're describing is happening in every school in Nova Scotia the week running into the 11th.

[Brad White]

That's correct.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

In small communities, not a lot of people can go to the various schools. Throughout the week, they can plan on being in, speaking at, and supporting a larger number of schools than on that one day, on which they would be out at a cenotaph and not necessarily in school. Really what's happening now in Nova Scotia, in my opinion, ensures that students are well aware of Remembrance Day and the importance behind Remembrance Day. You asked—and this is only my opinion—if it doesn't change the status, why do it? I say, if it doesn't change the status, why not do it? We're bringing consistency at the federal level.

[Brad White]

You mentioned the fact that, across Canada, some organizations will have a Remembrance Sunday, or a Remembrance Day that may not be celebrated on November 11. The Legion was very instrumental in making sure that November 11 was a day that we observe nationally, the day of remembrance. Before, and in some countries still today, they have Remembrance Sundays, or Remembrance other days, but those may not fall on November 11.

For us, it's of very big significance. The 11th of the 11th of the 11th is very significant in teaching young kids that they should be remembering the sacrifices that allow them to be in the school the way they are today.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

It is for me too.

[Brad White]

I agree.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

But it is still happening, in my opinion.

My last point is that I, as a family person, view holidays as an opportunity for a gathering of family so that you can spend time talking about family issues. The most important thing that usually comes out at the table is what we are celebrating that day or that week, and why we have a holiday. That's always been a discussion, so for me, it would be a little different.

Thank you very much for your comments.

[Brad White]

Thank you. I'm a military man with a military family. When my kids were in school, that's where I was—with my kids, at school.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.