Evidence of meeting #6 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sylviane Lanthier  Chair, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Francis Sonier  President, Association de la presse francophone
François Côté  Secretary General, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada
Simon Forgues  Development and Communications Officer, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada
Serge Quinty  Director of Communications, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Richard Tardif  Executive Director, Quebec Community Newspapers Association
Jean La Rose  Chief Executive Officer, Aboriginal Peoples Television Network
Carmel Smyth  President, Canadian Media Guild
Jeanne d'Arc Umurungi  Communications Director, Canadian Media Guild

9:20 a.m.

Chair, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Sylviane Lanthier

Thank you for your excellent question.

In another stage of my career, I headed a French-language provincial newspaper in Manitoba. The province runs a lot of ads in this newspaper, in particular. Immersion schools are also partners of this paper in terms of content and advertising. The provincial and local newspapers have various other ways to generate revenue rather than just resorting to the federal government. They can diversify their sources of income. However, this is not an option for all newspapers, and not all provinces have that level of commitment towards their francophone communities. This varies, depending on the community. My APF colleague could probably say more about it than I can.

9:20 a.m.

President, Association de la presse francophone

Francis Sonier

Indeed, not all provinces provide that much assistance to their minority community newspapers. Take Manitoba, for example, where French immersion classes in English schools have a subscription to La Liberté, a French-language newspaper. The subscription was purchased by the school. Could other provinces make other such efforts? I think so. I know that it is not your mandate, but if openness is the goal, provincial governments could adopt this approach.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

La Presse doesn't produce a hard copy anymore until Saturday. We are in this digital world. I'm sorry, but we are. You look across this country...and I've just pointed out in my province where there are pockets. Digital is going to play a huge part. Whether you agree or not, it's going to play a huge part in any media. La Presse shut down hard copies Monday through Friday. They produce only a Saturday hard copy. We thought about that for community newspapers. I know La Presse has probably struggled since they've done this, but I want you to....

What's your impression of La Presse stepping out? It's the first newspaper in Canada doing this digitally, by the way.

9:25 a.m.

President, Association de la presse francophone

Francis Sonier

The newspaper La Presse had to factor that in and crunch the numbers. I do not have those figures, but I know that distribution and printing were very expensive. Let us keep in mind that La Presse still has a concentrated central market, namely the greater Montreal area, with over two million people.

In the case of small newspapers, the concentration is not the same. Readership is widely dispersed over a given area. Take for example L'Acadie Nouvelle, in New Brunswick. We have to travel 10,000 kilometres every day to deliver the newspaper to people's homes. In 2012, we had to go to our competitor and sign a business agreement to print and distribute the newspaper. Fortunately, that was a win-win agreement.

Since francophones are scattered throughout most areas, delivering a newspaper becomes extremely expensive. Canada Post could help us, and in some areas the Internet is not available at reasonable prices. It is just not accessible or not accessible at a reasonable cost. We must therefore maintain this delivery.

You are talking about the media and the Internet. Where do you think credible online content comes from? The newspapers produce that content—not Facebook, not Twitter. The verified and verifiable information is produced by newspapers, by journalists. As I said earlier, we need human resources. When there is no revenue, we cannot invest in content.

Did I answer your question?

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

It says here that Canadian Heritage is the main funder of APF, so what are your administration fees, what is your readership, and how many papers do you have?

9:25 a.m.

President, Association de la presse francophone

Francis Sonier

Our weekly circulation is approximately 200,000 copies. There are several readers for each copy, specifically about three readers per copy.

Our administration budget is $357,000.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Are you high on administration, or do you actually have feet on the ground doing the work?

9:25 a.m.

President, Association de la presse francophone

Francis Sonier

We have feet on the ground.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You've answered that quickly—feet on the ground—good. Thank you very much.

We move to the next one, Mr. Nantel, for the NDP.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you. I would like to thank all the witnesses for joining us today.

All committee members have received calls. The media are very interested in the study. I have been a member of this committee for four and a half years and I have never seen such excitement over a subject. I think that people feel this is their chance to speak. I commend you all for participating in this work. I hope to have the opportunity to ask Mr. Sonier to talk some more about the solutions he wanted to present and what he would like to see in the report.

Let me talk a bit about the situation of a newspaper like L’Aurore boréale in Yukon. This paper is in a desert, in terms of Internet service. It is located in a remote region and of little interest to advertisers. A car dealer is certainly not selling 25 cars a week there. Moreover, the paper is in a minority situation in both French and English. Regional and traditional print media outside of major centres are facing an environment where advertisers are less interested in traditional media than in the past. This is the source of the problem. There are traditional issues and new issues in Canada. We seek to nurture these two cultures, two languages. This shortage of government advertising that affects you all is paradoxical.

Mr. Forgues, you said earlier that the CRTC asked you to acquire a telecommunications system that cost you nearly $10,000 for each of the stations to broadcast emergency, disaster, public radio and service messages. The government asks you to make an investment but no longer buys advertising from you. It tells you that your radio provides essential services, but it does not give you money every week to supplement your budget. However, the transmitter has to work and you have to pay $10,000. It is a bit of a paradox.

There is the notion of reaching a particular audience. This is a niche service, and it is hard to sell advertising in that context.

Would you find it useful for the committee to receive people involved in media placement so they could tell us about the choices they make with their clients? We heard several accounts about publications that are doing well and have excellent readership. They are selling a lot less advertising, as if suddenly it became worthless to advertise anywhere other than the Internet.

Do you think—I would like to hear your comments and I really want to leave time for Mr. Sonier—that it would be appropriate to receive representatives of major telecommunications companies? One might ask where are the signals that work and where are those that do not work and what are the facts about the Internet. It would also be good to talk about media placement. How do they explain referring clients to all kinds of other options online instead of traditional media?

Ms. Lanthier, I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

9:30 a.m.

Chair, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Sylviane Lanthier

Any information that the committee can get to help members understand the media environment will be beneficial for you and for us. That could certainly be useful. It is also important that you understand how ad placement works from a media insider's perspective. That is also very important.

Take a newspaper like L’Aurore boréale, a provincial newspaper like Le Franco in Edmonton, or a community radio station that broadcasts across the whole province. When you go see the IGA in your city, the manager does not want to buy ads in your media venue because he wants to reach the people of his small community who shop in his store. The manager is not interested in the rest of the province. It is hard to find a win-win situation when it comes to private markets. That is not always easy.

Understanding precisely how selling advertising works in our reality will enable you to balance the two. You will also need to understand how ad placement works over the Internet. This way you will have a good idea of the whole situation.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Since there is a problem with government disinvestment from advertising, one can well consider that this is a multi-headed monster. Administrative heads will say that they do not want to go in that direction because there is no return in terms of the readership.

Mr. Sonier, I see that you are reacting. You have the floor.

9:30 a.m.

President, Association de la presse francophone

Francis Sonier

You have opened a door and there are two minutes remaining. I will tell you this.

In 2014, an official from Public Works and Government Services came to our annual general meeting and informed us that it was not up to the agencies to decide, but rather to Public Works and Government Services Canada. That was the substance of our complaint to the Commissioner of Official Languages. The orders come from the top, specifically from the Department of Public Works and Government Services. That is what happened, and we saw our revenues drop. We lost $1.5 million every year. That is the reality of it. The orders do not come from the agencies. Invite agencies to come before you and they will probably tell you the same thing, namely that the orders come from elsewhere and they are not necessarily the ones who make the decisions on buying ads. When we say that the government targeted television and the Internet, that was a top-level decision.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Is that a political or operational decision?

9:30 a.m.

President, Association de la presse francophone

Francis Sonier

That is what we understood.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Okay.

9:30 a.m.

Secretary General, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada

François Côté

We had the same information that the APF did.

9:30 a.m.

Secretary General, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada

François Côté

I would add that it would be interesting to look into advertising because in almost all countries, the studies that are being published show that online advertising is not working. People are not getting their money's worth. When people see an ad, they close it. Online ads are irritating. Why is the government investing all its money on those ads when it has been proven that advertising in traditional media works and provides a return? That is what I have been wondering.

9:35 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you , Mr. Côté.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go to the other Liberal, Mr. Vandal, for seven minutes.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Thank you so much for your excellent presentations.

I will continue with Mr. Sonier.

You mentioned the drop in federal revenues. What is the total amount you are currently receiving from the federal government?

9:35 a.m.

President, Association de la presse francophone

Francis Sonier

Are you referring to our association members?

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Yes, I mean the 22 member newspapers.

9:35 a.m.

President, Association de la presse francophone

Francis Sonier

Are you talking about the advertising?

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

No, I am talking about the total amount.