Evidence of meeting #77 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was muslim.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Ms. Dhillon.
We're now going to go to Mr. Reid again, for the Conservatives. You have three minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dr. Emil, I'm going to express the concern I have regarding our moving forward in this committee with a recommendation to condemn Islamophobia without defining Islamophobia, and it's this. In France, a very civilized country, we recently saw a distinguished French historian, Georges Bensoussan, of North African Jewish ancestry, up on hate crime charges for quoting another French writer or filmmaker who is also of North African descent, who said that “in Arab families in France and beyond, everybody knows but will not say that anti-Semitism is transmitted with mother’s milk.”
This perhaps is unfair, but I'm not sure it qualifies as hate speech. He was charged with criminal hate speech, eventually acquitted, and that acquittal is now being appealed by the umbrella organization to fight Islamophobia in France. The fear I have is that this is the danger of not trying to define it, and that's why I asked about the definition earlier that focuses purely on violence, discrimination, and racism against Muslims.
If we put in wording like this and specifically say that we don't mean other kinds of definitions of Islamophobia, that we reject all forms of Islamophobia, that we just mean the one I described, just the violence and discrimination, couldn't that serve as a useful legal definition for Canada?
4:25 p.m.
Professor and Associate Chair, Department of Pediatric Surgery, Faculty of Medecine, McGill University, Director, Pediatric General and Thoracic Surgery, Montreal Children's Hospital, As an Individual
Yes, I would find that acceptable. If the word has to be used, that's a reasonable way to define it.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Okay, I appreciate that very much.
How much time do I have left? Do I have one minute?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Okay.
You didn't get the opportunity to respond to Ms. Kwan. You wanted to give an illustration to show how Canada does not represent the national values it claims to uphold. Could you use the remainder of the time to give that example?
4:30 p.m.
Professor and Associate Chair, Department of Pediatric Surgery, Faculty of Medecine, McGill University, Director, Pediatric General and Thoracic Surgery, Montreal Children's Hospital, As an Individual
Thank you for coming back to that. I'll give a simple example. I watched the Prime Minister's victory speech, and he said the following:
There are a thousand stories I could share with you about this remarkable campaign, but I want you to think about one in particular. Last week, I met a young mom in St. Catharines, Ontario. She practises the Muslim faith and was wearing a hijab. She made her way through the crowd and handed me her infant daughter, and as she leaned forward, she said something that I will never forget. She said she’s voting for us because she wants to make sure that her little girl has the right to make her own choices in life and that our government will protect those rights.
I salute the Prime Minister for standing up for women who want to wear the hijab. In Canada or in any western democracy, any woman should be able to wear the hijab if she so chooses, but what about the hundreds of thousands of girls and young women who have no choice and are forced to wear the hijab and the niqab? Shouldn't the Prime Minister also be standing on the world scene and advocating for them? He calls himself a feminist. Where is his position on that?
There are women who have had their faces burned in country after country for not wearing the niqab. There are girls, right here in Canada, aged 6, who are being forced to wear the hijab. Where is the Prime Minister on that position? Where is the Liberal Party? Can the Liberal Party start being liberal with a small l because those women need support—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Mr. Emil. Your time is up.
I would like to go to Mr. Vandal for the Liberals. You have three minutes, please.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
First of all, I want to put a little context to all of this. I want to read from the actual motion. I believe it was you, Mr. Emil, who said that this was not about Canada, and that this was about the world. The terms of reference we are working with today are:That the government should recognize the need to quell the increasing public climate of hate and fear...and that we should develop a whole-of-government approach to reducing or eliminating systemic racism and religious discrimination...in Canada.
We are all elected by Canadians across the country, every one of us, and although I fully appreciate that it's a complex, cruel world, we are focusing on what we can do for our country as leaders in this Parliament.
I believe I may have misunderstood you. Did you say that Canada does not advocate for the rights of minorities in this country?
4:30 p.m.
Professor and Associate Chair, Department of Pediatric Surgery, Faculty of Medecine, McGill University, Director, Pediatric General and Thoracic Surgery, Montreal Children's Hospital, As an Individual
Yes, sir. I said they do not actively stand for rights of minorities. That's right.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
I'm stunned by that comment. Could you unpack that a little more?
4:30 p.m.
Professor and Associate Chair, Department of Pediatric Surgery, Faculty of Medecine, McGill University, Director, Pediatric General and Thoracic Surgery, Montreal Children's Hospital, As an Individual
Sure, absolutely. I just read you how Egyptian society works. I haven't heard criticism of Canada for how mainstream Egyptian society—
4:30 p.m.
Professor and Associate Chair, Department of Pediatric Surgery, Faculty of Medecine, McGill University, Director, Pediatric General and Thoracic Surgery, Montreal Children's Hospital, As an Individual
And every Muslim society—Pakistan, and Indonesia, which just filed a blasphemy motion against a single Christian governor who managed to be elected in Indonesia.
Where has the Canadian government's position been on all of those?
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
With all due respect, Mr. Emil, I'm sure you've heard of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?
4:30 p.m.
Professor and Associate Chair, Department of Pediatric Surgery, Faculty of Medecine, McGill University, Director, Pediatric General and Thoracic Surgery, Montreal Children's Hospital, As an Individual
Yes, I have.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Every Canadian has fundamental freedoms, whether they be freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of thought, freedom of belief and expression, freedom of the press, and freedom to worship any god they want, regardless of ethnic background or whether you're an indigenous person. Every Canadian who lives here has the same rights.
4:30 p.m.
Professor and Associate Chair, Department of Pediatric Surgery, Faculty of Medecine, McGill University, Director, Pediatric General and Thoracic Surgery, Montreal Children's Hospital, As an Individual
You're addressing a different question completely. I have asked where Canada's position is. You've told me that you don't advocate for minority rights around the world, and I said give me an example—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
First of all, I have never said those words you just quoted.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Order, please.
I will put in extra time, but you have 30 seconds left, Mr. Vandal.
Mr. Emil, if you want to say something, please make sure that you allow Mr. Vandal to continue to interact with you.
4:30 p.m.
Professor and Associate Chair, Department of Pediatric Surgery, Faculty of Medecine, McGill University, Director, Pediatric General and Thoracic Surgery, Montreal Children's Hospital, As an Individual
I apologize.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Madam Chair, I'm stunned that a witness can come here and say Canada does not advocate for the rights of minorities. That's something I fundamentally disagree with. It's something that I frankly find insulting, and I think every elected official at this table disagrees with it.
I'm going to end my presentation there.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much.
We have three seconds left, and I'm going to call time. Ms. Kwan is next, for three minutes.
