Canadian Heritage Committee on June 18th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Welcome, everybody, to the 46th meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted in committee on June 11, 2021, the committee will commence consideration of the study of funding to locate the remains of indigenous children buried on the grounds of former residential schools.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, both virtual and in person, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. It will be shown on the House of Commons website once it's available. There will be no photos for social media use. Thank you very much for abiding by that.

I want to make one statement before we commence today's meeting. This is for all staff. Today’s meeting might include some difficult testimony that can affect people in many ways. House employees, including members and their staff, can access support through the administration’s nurse counsellors at [e-mail], and the employee and family assistance program at 1-800-663-1142. This information is available on the House of Commons website or you can follow up with me or the clerk.

That being said, I want to welcome everyone on this beautiful Friday. It is a beautiful Friday, at least in my neck of the woods here on this little [Technical difficulty—Editor] Newfoundland, the unceded territory of the Mi’kmaq as well as Beothuk.

First of all, I want to acknowledge the fact that we are dealing with a motion from Mr. Waugh. I thank him for that.

I want to welcome our guests. Joining us from the Department of Canadian Heritage is Emmanuelle Sajous, assistant deputy minister, sport, major events and commemorations; and Melanie Kwong, director general, major events, commemoration and capital experience. Joining us from Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is Amanda McCarthy, director, resolution and partnerships.

As you know, we start with a statement from our officials. We say as a guideline that it's five minutes, but I won't be terribly strict about this. We have perhaps a little bit more than an hour to do our meeting today. I would like to do two rounds of questioning.

Ms. Kwong, you have the floor for five minutes. Welcome.

[Melanie Kwong, Director General, Major Events, Commemorations and Capital Experience, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.

I would just like to mention that my colleague Emmanuelle is having some connection difficulties, so I'll be speaking on her behalf to begin the remarks.

Dear members of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. I'm pleased to be appearing before you today.

Recognizing that I'm speaking on my colleague's behalf, I would like to acknowledge that today I'm speaking to you from the Treaty No. 7 territory of the Stoney Nakoda and Blackfoot Confederacy, as well as Métis region 3 in Alberta.

I'm here to give you information on funding provided by the Department of Canadian Heritage for activities related to the commemoration of the history and legacy of residential schools.

First, I would like to acknowledge the committee's support in making the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation a reality. This year, on September 30, we will mark the first anniversary of this important day that will help ensure that the tragic history and legacy of residential schools are not forgotten and remain a vital component of the reconciliation process.

In 2019, the federal budget provided $7 million over two years for projects to raise awareness of the history and legacy of residential schools and to honour survivors, families and communities. The department developed a two-year strategy. The first year we funded large-scale national initiatives that have an educational and legacy component. The second year was for community-based projects suited to meet specific needs, histories and realities.

This funding provided grants and contributions to eligible recipients for initiatives that helped raise awareness regarding the history and legacy of residential schools and for activities that enabled communities to recognize, commemorate and honour survivors, their families and communities. Interest in this special initiative was remarkable with over 350 applications totalling $14 million in requested funding, despite the challenges caused by the pandemic.

Between 2019 and 2021, several national events and 203 community projects were funded. Examples of eligible projects include: healing gardens, ceremonies, healing workshops, elder presentations, speaker series, commemorative plaques and monuments, educational and awareness material, and cultural and artistic initiatives.

These numbers show the interest and need for these types of commemorative activities and funding to support them.

I'm happy to report that budget 2021 made the funding announced in budget 2019 permanent, with $13.4 million over the next five years and $2.4 million in ongoing support. The department will be engaging indigenous groups, survivor organizations and communities to determine how best to allocate funds. It is critical to engage to ensure this funding best meets the needs of indigenous communities and that we adhere to the principle of “nothing about us without us”.

In parallel with this national engagement, the department will collaborate with national organizations for large‑scale commemorative events in 2021 that will continue to raise awareness regarding the history and legacy that I talked about earlier.

To speak specifically on the paths to healing project, I have some points of clarification.

The Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc received a $40,000 grant for a project they called “paths to healing”. This was in the context of the funding I mentioned previously that was announced in 2019.

The objective of the program was to commemorate the history and legacy of residential schools and to honour survivors, their families and communities. The project submitted by the community was in fact for the creation of a permanent memorial site and included improvements such as benches, plants, gardens and paths within the existing heritage park. It also included commemorative events centred around Orange Shirt Day.

The use of the ground-penetrating radar technology was one of the measures taken as part of the development of this initiative. In effect, one can say that the Canadian Heritage funding contributed to the identification of the remains. However, this find was not the original intended specific purpose of the project.

Other federal departments, such as Crown‑Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, have their own initiatives that address certain calls to action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. These initiatives relate to their specific mandates.

In the specific case of missing children and burials, the Department of Crown‑Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is the lead for calls to action 74 to 76.

This concludes my opening remarks.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much, Ms. Kwong. I appreciate that.

I notice that Ms. Sajous was able to join us. I think she's there right now.

Ms. Sajous, can you please say hello and tell us a little bit about yourself in order to get that sound check?

[Emmanuelle Sajous, Assistant Deputy Minister, Sport, Major Events and Commemorations, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Good afternoon. I'm tremendously sorry.

My name is Emmanuelle Sajous.

I am the assistant deputy minister at Canadian Heritage, for sport, commemorations and major events. It's nice to be here today. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

It appears that your sound should be okay.

Oh, she was already sound-checked. That's very good.

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

Yes, I'm really sorry. I lost my connection.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Trust me, you're not the first one to say that, and you're probably not going to be the last one either. I appreciate your coming on for this important discussion.

Now, folks, for those of you who are unfamiliar—perhaps you're watching us through webcast—those were our opening statements. We now go to the round of questioning from our colleagues.

We are going to start with the Conservative Party, and the man who brought us this motion, Mr. Kevin Waugh.

Mr. Waugh, you have the floor, for six minutes, please.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests. This has been a particularly hard time in our country and I felt it very important to bring department officials forward to speak about the paths of healing and the situation in Kamloops.

When I look at the Kamloops, when Canadian Heritage gave the $40,000 grant, I see that part of it was for the ground-penetrating radar that identified the 215 gravesites.

How many other residential schools in this country have applied for the grant and the GPR? I know my province of Saskatchewan is actively involved right now, and I'm going to talk about that in a moment, but from the Kamloops story, how many now have contacted the heritage department requesting funding for the GPR?

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

Thank you.

As you heard in the opening remarks, the purpose of Canadian Heritage's commemorations program is to educate Canadians on the history of residential schools and create a positive environment for reconciliation. The program's goals boil down to awareness, education and promotion. We received over 350 funding applications over the course of the program. Canadian Heritage provided $3.5 million in funding for 203 projects, and Kamloops received $40,000 for a project to build a healing garden and a reconciliation centre. The horrifying discovery happened over the course of that project. The funding was earmarked for a healing garden.

I'll now give the floor to my Crown‑Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, or CIRNAC, colleague, who will provide additional information on the number of communities that asked for radars. Ms. McCarthy?

[Amanda McCarthy, Director, Settlement Agreement and Childhood Claims, Resolution and Partnerships, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

Thank you very much for inviting me here.

At this moment, I can say that we've received over 17 requests for more information about the funding envelope. We've provided them with the necessary information for them to access the funding. At this point we've not received more than 10 proposals, as communities work through this very difficult tragedy and listen to their communities and their survivors about the best approach to move forward.

We are here to offer our support and the resources [Technical difficulty—Editor] survivors, their organizations and communities are ready.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you.

We have lots in Saskatchewan where I come from, such as the Battleford Indian Industrial School. We have the Star Blanket Cree Nation. We have so many in our province now that are going to reach out.

There was a story in the CBC that now certain organizations want to rent these ground-penetrating radar services and go to the first nations, the indigenous groups, in my province and others. They say they have the expertise. In fact, I see SNC-Lavalin has offered their services to many in Saskatchewan and to others in this country.

I'm a little concerned about the scam aspect of this, because you really need expertise in ground-penetrating radar and how to operate it and identify it. CBC has done a very good story on the scams that are coming forward. I'm very worried that this is going to overtake what really should be happening—access to funds either from INAN or from Canadian Heritage and doing it properly—because if it isn't done properly, this is going to be another disaster in this country.

Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

Maybe Ms. McCarthy would want to answer, because this is more her mandate in the department.

[Amanda McCarthy]

Thank you for that.

We engaged with over 150 participants during summer and fall 2020, and we overwhelming heard that the approach that Canada should take should be to facilitate access to resources, but the project should be community-led and informed by survivors.

We're currently reaching out with colleagues and other professionals to start the conversation about how to provide a sense of guidance on ground-penetrating radar that communities can access to enable them to make informed decisions.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I sat on INAN for two years, and the money, as you mentioned, supposedly was there. There was $33 million over three years, and there's still $27 million left.

I heard the testimony from the National Centre of Truth and Reconciliation. It received $2.6 million to develop and maintain a student death register. However, it says the money is not flowing, and I would agree with the centre.

The program started in 2019 with over $33 million, and we've only seen $3 million to $4 million out. What is the issue here? We still have $27 million available two years later. What is the issue we are seeing in this country and the departments?

[Amanda McCarthy]

We wanted to make sure we engaged with survivor organizations, indigenous leaders, health practitioners and archaeologists. We did that engagement over the summer and fall of last year. We had delays due to the pandemic. We supported the communities by identifying their priorities, and supported them and their members during that difficult time. We completed the engagement in November 2020, and as you're aware we now have the $27.1 million available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Ms. McCarthy, and thank you, Mr. Waugh.

We're now going to Mr. Battiste, who is not a regular member of our committee, but is a special guest today with his expertise. We certainly welcome him.

I know your riding is in Cape Breton, and Sydney is in it, but I've forgotten the official name.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

It's Sydney—Victoria.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I should know that.

You have six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I want to thank the heritage committee for giving me some time today to talk about this really important issue.

I've heard some of the members and some of the discussion regarding the need to raise awareness in commemorating Indian residential schools.

I'd like to begin by looking at some of the work we've done as a government. Yesterday, we were lucky enough to vote on Bill C-15 on UNDRIP, which was mentioned seven times in the TRC's calls to action. We've also done important work in terms of establishing a language commissioner last week, as well as the TRC calls to action regarding the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation.

We've taken a lot of big steps in government in terms of fulfilling the calls to action, but across the country there were 130 different residential schools. In a lot of these places, there is no commemoration. There is no plaque. There's nothing. As for the only residential school we had in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, there is a farm there now. There's nothing there to commemorate all of the children whose lives were lost, and all of the communities that had to go there.

Could you talk to me a bit about the $27 million our government has put towards ensuring that we move forward on the calls to action? Why is it important that these processes be indigenous-led and not government-led, community-based and based on the survivors of the residential schools, which were very different all across Canada.

I want you to speak to that a bit.

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

First of all, budget 2019 did in fact allocate $7 million over two years for Canadian Heritage to address residential schools.

The objective of the money was to increase awareness; to commemorate the legacy; to honour the memory of the residential school survivors, the families and communities; and to provide an opportunity for survivors to talk about this dark period of our history.

In budget 2021, we were able to get $13.4 million over five years. We now have $2.4 million a year to continue on this path and to commemorate the legacy of residential schools.

I will turn to Ms. McCarthy. Maybe you can talk about your own calls to action, and what you're doing on your side.

[Amanda McCarthy]

You have my apologies. I was disconnected for a couple of minutes. I'm not sure I heard everything that was presented, but I did catch the fact that you were interested in hearing what the $27.1 million was for.

Am I correct in that?

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Yes. Could you speak to that and what we're doing around commemoration?

[Amanda McCarthy]

The $27.1 million is the funding that's now available from the $33.8 million specifically targeted for calls to action 74 to 76. The funding is dedicated to supporting indigenous communities and survivors' organizations and their partners in locating, documenting, maintaining and commemorating burial sites associated with former residential schools, and responding to family wishes to commemorate and memorialize their losses and the children's final resting places.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Okay. If that's all, then, I want to touch on education a little bit. We're talking about commemoration and we're talking about raising awareness. A lot of the education components of moving forward on the calls to action [Technical difficulty—Editor] provinces and federal collaboration. Now with the truth and reconciliation day of September 30, can you talk a little about what opportunities exist around heritage in terms of how we can create more awareness and education around the Indian residential schools?

Feel free to chime in, anyone.

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

I'm sorry. The connection is not very good on my side. I'm not sure I understood the whole question.