Canadian Heritage Committee on June 18th, 2021

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses who are here with us this afternoon as we study this crucial, fundamental issue.

I can't help but make two brief remarks as an introduction.

First, the discovery of 215 children's bodies next to the Kamloops residential school shook not only Canadian politicians, but all of Canada and Quebec as well. It provided human‑scale evidence of a harrowing tragedy that went on for almost a century, where children were uprooted from their communities and abused. Several were buried without their parents knowing about it. This discovery sent out shockwaves in Ottawa. The flags are still at half‑mast, and there are flowers, teddy bears and toys next to the Centennial Flame on Parliament Hill.

I'd like to thank my colleague, Kevin Waugh, for moving this motion.

However, eloquent speeches and good intentions unfortunately don't always lead to concrete action.

This isn't a question for the witnesses, but, nonetheless, something that I would like to be recorded in the archives.

My colleague, Niki Ashton, asked the House earlier today for unanimous consent to move and pass a motion to create an independent commission with the resources to conduct searches on the grounds of residential schools and determine whether other children are also buried there—because more have been found since the Kamloops discovery. The motion also seeks to obtain the records needed to conduct those searches.

Unfortunately, the motion was defeated, particularly due to the votes of certain members of the governing party. This is extremely disappointing.

I'm not asking you to respond to those questions, Ms. Kwong, because they're more of a political nature. I have something more tangible for you.

The final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada has 94 calls to action. There has been little to no progress on calls to action 74, 75 and 76, despite the fact that funding has been earmarked since 2019.

When do you believe that the federal government will move forward on these calls to action?

[Melanie Kwong]

Thank you for the question.

As the specific mandate falls to my colleague Ms. McCarthy, I'd ask her to answer your question.

[Amanda McCarthy]

Thank you for the question.

It's difficult to say at this time, as we're still listening to indigenous voices as they go through this recent tragedy. As I mentioned, it's the role of government to facilitate the access to the resources, but when requested, when people are ready. This is not something that we wish to rush.

We need to make sure that we do it right. We need to make sure that it's survivors who are leading and informing the decisions. It's difficult to say at this time what the timeline may be, other than to say that Canada is here and it's ready to support and provide those resources.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I understand your point of view and where you are at in your responsibilities, but it isn't very clear. It's still rather vague, unfortunately.

Earlier, Mr. Battiste asked a good question, and I would like to pick up on his idea.

I know that the federal government isn't in charge of this, but when I was young, when I was in school, in elementary or high school, I wasn't told much about the residential school tragedy. In fact, we learned about it a little late. I know that there has been a revamping of the Canadian citizenship education guide, which talks very clearing and specifically about the reality of the residential schools and this historical wound.

However, beyond that, what do you plan to do, in collaboration with the provinces, to be able to tell this tragic and dramatic story so that Canadians and Quebecers are aware of what happened, much more than what we've been told in the past? It seems to me that we have looked the other way in the last few decades. We didn't dare face the past.

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

As I mentioned a little earlier, the money we obtained was set out in the 2019 and 2021 budgets.

The purpose of our commemoration program is really to raise awareness, to commemorate the history and legacy of residential schools, to honour survivors and their families, and to give them the opportunity to tell their stories in the context of a healing process.

In terms of examples of projects, education and awareness materials can indeed be funded from these funds. There are also commemorative plaques, exhibits, travelling displays, healing workshops with elders, and community meals and ceremonies. There are many ways and many tools available to us to make sure that this story [Technical Difficulty—Editor] this hidden side is told.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In terms of the process and how you carry out your program of commemoration and remembrance of these tragic events, I would like to understand a little bit more about how you work with indigenous organizations and jurisdictions to make sure that this is done not only with them, but also by and for them.

[Melanie Kwong]

I'll answer the question, if I may.

That's the way to move forward. As I mentioned, we have the experience of these 200 projects across the country. The goal is to learn what works well and what can be improved, and to determine the demands and needs.

In response to the question about education, I would say that many of the projects funded by Canadian Heritage come from indigenous communities. For example, there are books that speak to the importance of these stories locally and nationally.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Boulerice.

We will now go to our second round.

Mr. Shields, you have five minutes, please.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the department officials for being here with us today on this very important topic.

I have a couple of comments, in the sense that as a fifth-generation family in southern Alberta, I'm very familiar with Treaty 7 and the Blackfoot Confederacy. We grew up going to school with them, knowing residential schools. My mother actually taught in a residential school. This is something I'm familiar with.

I have met with many elders, some of those people I grew up with. I have met with clans, clan leaders, hereditary chiefs and elders who have survived residential schools. I've been to grave sites, marked and unmarked, in my riding. It's probably a history that some of us are very familiar with.

When we see the $33 million and only $27 million unspent, on that $27 million unspent, you sort of wonder, why is there confusion, is it a program that has been silent? I was on the heritage committee when we did the national day of recognition. There was a lot of discussion about that one. Some of the concerns I had about it were that it's federally regulated. It's not a statutory holiday for everybody. We have a problem with that one in itself, because it doesn't apply to everybody in our country.

When we talked about that day of recognition, my questions were often, “Are you putting this on their shoulders without any supports to indigenous people? Where is the connection to the rest of society, and whose onus is it going to be to carry this? Is it the school system? How are they going to do it?”

You mentioned the book. I mentioned that book should have been written and distributed everywhere in the country.

I think we have lots of problems here, in the sense of where we are going forward.

Our national [Technical difficulty—Editor] to indigenous people, the government hired...and I met with them. There was a play written about reconciliation, to do with Siksika and the first nations, by the Strathmore High School. It was viewed in a number of places. It's a phenomenal play. I said that's the kind of play that should be in Ottawa at the National Arts Centre, to bring things to people. They said they were given no money: “We were just hired, but we have no money."

I think we have a huge challenge here, in the sense of, one, confusion on who can get the money and how, and two, it's directed, I think, to indigenous people to carry the load on this, which is problematic. We're putting it back in the wrong place. We need to have a different way, because provinces do education.

Anyways, I have rambled. To the department officials, do you have any response to the concerns I have going forward on this?

[Melanie Kwong]

I might start. There was a lot of information there, and I hope I can touch on most of the pieces, Mr. Shields.

I'm glad you mentioned your experiences, because, again, perhaps using this example from the funding that Canadian Heritage has been able to provide, just exactly.... When I speak about a book, I'm just looking to make sure that I have the name of it right. Part of the funding was to support the Piikani Indian residential school interviews project, for example. It's those local projects that often include commemorative programming and the component for Orange Shirt Day, like we saw in these 200 projects, which does have the ability to join some of the recognition and commemoration pieces with activities that are happening.

I think what we've seen with these 200 projects—again, this was the second year of the two-year funding—is that we have an opportunity to learn from what has happened here and, as my colleague Amanda has said, take the feedback that we're getting in terms of indigenous voices about what we can do with this money to best [Technical difficulty—Editor] we still need to do, but a lot we can learn from what's been done.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

When you said that it was a “statutory holiday”, it's a statutory holiday for federal and federally regulated.... We have a problem right off the bat in the sense of how that's going to be viewed and worked with, as provinces don't do that.

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

One of the goals was to make this day similar to Remembrance Day on November 11. This would be timely, as children across the country would be in school on that day. The day could be used to educate them. We could talk to them about the purpose of this day of remembrance and why it is important to remember what happened in the residential schools.

The model that will be chosen for the day of remembrance will be based on Remembrance Day of November 11.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

In western Canada, Remembrance Day is a statutory holiday, but not in the rest of the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Shields. I appreciate that.

Ms. Ien, you have five minutes.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, thank you so much.

I so appreciate the witnesses who have joined us here today.

I want to thank my colleague Mr. Waugh as well for bringing forward this very important issue.

There seems to be a theme here today, and that is education or the lack thereof. Why didn't we know? It lent to the shock that everybody seemed to be in.

I want to talk a bit more about pathways to healing and what I call the “information gap”. Specifically, who is targeted in raising awareness and fostering education? Who are you targeting with that education? Who are you targeting with regard to raising awareness?

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

As we work to implement the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, on September 30 of each year, our first goal will be to work with indigenous communities.

So we will begin with consultations with indigenous groups, survivor groups and national indigenous organizations. We will see how best to implement this day of remembrance, how to distribute the funding, and how to properly explain the story of these people. Only after we gather all these ideas can we see how to implement them across the country.

The first thing we need to do is really engage with indigenous communities and groups to find out how they want this story to be told.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Yes, which makes a lot of sense because, unlike my colleague Mr. Boulerice, I didn't learn about residential schools at all when I was at school. The education gap was there and, of course, these are not stories that are being told in the media, frankly. I had a good conversation with author and journalist Tanya Talaga recently, and she said that it got to a point where she created her own production company to make sure the stories of her people were told, because there was such a gap.

I'm just wondering more about engagement with the communities. The way that it's set up, it's not top-down but bottom-up, because there are distinct indigenous nations across Canada. That is a very good thing, but I'm wondering with this engagement how children are involved. Are you involving children, who no doubt see themselves in these 215?

[Emmanuelle Sajous]

We will begin when we do the engagement. One of our principles will be a distinctions-based consultation. We will make sure we include Métis, first nations and Inuit in those consultations.

With respect to kids, we will work with indigenous organizations, elders, survivor circles and other groups to see how they want to be consulted.

Maybe I will turn to Melanie and my colleague Amanda to see if they want to add something to this question.

[Melanie Kwong]

I'm afraid I would be repeating just that, the initial consultation to ensure we're taking all of the considerations into account.

[Amanda McCarthy]

I have nothing to add at this time.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

That's not a problem.

How has the vision changed following the 215. As my colleague Mr. Battiste mentioned, with 130 residential schools across the country, we know there will be more. The 215 will be followed by many more.

What is the vision now, and how might that have changed with this discovery?

[Melanie Kwong]

Thank you for the question about the vision and the events that are shaping what that might look like. Are you asking about the vision with respect to the national day?

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

It's with respect to the national day, yes.