Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[Martin Roy]

Thank you for the question.

The existence of festivals and certain events is clearly in question. The current reality of festivals and events is that they have gone into hibernation and are trying as much as possible to retain their teams, expertise and assets so that they can get back into operation when possible.

The problem is that they have been spending and running deficits. There will come a time when there will be no more cash. Their very existence is in question. Currently, festivals and events only have one category of revenue, which is grants. Approximately 4% of the financial packages normally come from Canadian government grants, and in Quebec, 8% come from the Quebec government. Contributions also come from municipalities and sometimes from regional tourism associations.

Currently, only these contributions are keeping teams and organizations alive. It's essential that this be done and that grants be increased for the time being.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you.

I'll let my colleague continue the discussion.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I'd like to thank our witnesses. Their interventions are always very relevant and interesting.

Mr. Roy, I will continue in the same vein as my colleague Mr. Champoux. We are already talking about 2022 because, for you, it's already too late for the major events of 2021.

What would you urgently need to be able to keep most of the festivals and the related expertise alive?

[Martin Roy]

Again, I think one of the keys is this great program I was talking about, the marquee tourism events program.

If we proceeded quickly, we would give the remaining teams and leaders the opportunity to perhaps recall people who have been laid off, as well as the opportunity to work over the next 12 to 15 months on a relaunch, a 2022 edition for their festivals and events.

We know that all this bad stuff is going to go away eventually. In 2022, we're going to speak about recovery, we're going to want to attract tourists. We're going to want to find ourselves also. I think we will need, let's say, social healing.

For the moment, in 2021 and for future editions, we'll try to turn to digital mode, to make hybrid editions and smaller editions. We'll still try to stay active. However, if we focus on 2022 now, we could keep our expertise. It's extremely important to keep the expertise in our organizations.

For example, you can't replace overnight a program director who has contacts with major art agencies and artists all over the world. You can't find someone with equivalent skills and the same contacts all over the world overnight. It's extremely important to keep the expertise within our teams.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I fully agree with you. I come from this milieu, from the arts and tourism field. Because of my experience in the region, I know the very close relationship between the two sectors of economic activity; I am able to measure it.

We know that we have to plan for the long term. Could we propose to the government a solid action plan that would be reassuring for the future, that would make it possible to perpetuate the two programs you're talking about and that they be indexed so that we don't always have to renew them?

[Martin Roy]

I agree with you. These are the two key programs. Again, there are several interventions that are being made by the federal government in the culture and arts sector. But for festivals and events, it's essentially through these two programs, the Canada arts presentation fund and the building communities through arts and heritage program. It's a centralized environment. There are 1,050 festivals and events supported by these two programs. So if these programs aren't well resourced, the entire ecosystem of festivals and events suffers.

I should also point out that in 2016, when this government took office, it doubled the budget of the CBC and the Canada Council for the Arts. However, it did not increase the program budget of the Department of Canadian Heritage as substantially and in the same proportion. In my opinion, that's where the problem lies.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

This sector is in decline and, on top of that, we have to deal with the post-pandemic recovery. The challenge is there. In my opinion, we really need to act jointly. To do so, we could even superimpose departments, such as Tourism and Canadian Heritage

[Martin Roy]

Absolutely. Under the two programs I mentioned, there would no doubt be a way to get Canadian Heritage and the Department of Economic Development to work together on a program of an economic and tourism nature, with a strong cultural dimension. This would involve using events and festivals to generate economic and tourism activity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Roy.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

We have Ms. McPherson for six minutes, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you to all of our witnesses.

I have a few questions for Mr. Mitchell to start with.

I don't think people across the country necessarily recognize just how important the Edmonton International Fringe Festival is for theatre in this country and what a wonderful festival it is for our community. It is, in fact, the heartbeat of Edmonton Strathcona. It's actually where my husband and I had our very first date, and we are now going on to our 20th anniversary. We have celebrated our anniversary at the Fringe every single year.

There is one thing I want to ask you about, Mr. Mitchell, to ensure that I can actually go on my 20th year. Could you talk a little bit about what the rebuilding and the restarting for the fringe festival will look like, in your opinion?

[Adam Mitchell]

Thank you very much. I am so happy to hear that you have such a strong connection to us. We hear so many stories about the impacts of festival events and Fringe in particular, and it's always great to hear.

I would say that the rebuild is going to be slower than any of us want. The reality is that the ecosystem of revenue that needs to be generated in order to build an event like ours requires the ability to bring together people en masse. Critical mass is the thing that we're all built on.

We are working very hard to connect artists and audiences, even in small ways. I have a theatre that's currently operating with a maximum capacity of between 20 and 30 people. That doesn't pay anyone's bills at the end of the day. We are currently looking at a 2021 festival that might possibly be a small version of live performance, in a scaled-back way. However, we do not actually understand right now if we can even consider an outdoor site component, which is where a massive part of our revenue comes from.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Looking forward then, similar to what Mr. Roy was saying, are you looking at the 2022 festival as the first time that the Fringe Festival is actually back in its traditional format?

[Adam Mitchell]

Yes. We're looking at 2021 being a bit of a nucleus build-out, probably more similar to what our very first festival looked like than what our 39th festival should have looked like.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm sure it will still be wonderful.

I know you touched on this in your opening comments, but could you talk a little bit about the impacts of the Fringe Festival's inability to go forward on the artistic community and on our vendors? Could you also talk just a little bit about what you know of the impact on Whyte Avenue or the greater Edmonton community?

[Adam Mitchell]

Absolutely.

The reality is that I normally have 250-plus people on my payroll. I currently have 17. It jumped up to about 23, including the Canada summer jobs students I was able to keep employed this summer. It's a complete devastation. We're one of the more diverse and versatile organizations in our community. We've managed to open up a couple of spaces. We're dedicated to being a part of the solution for rebuilding lots of small arts organizations because we are the stewards of a physical asset that community can be built around.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I know that the Fringe Festival is the biggest festival in North America, but that is replicated across the country in other smaller festivals, I'm sure.

The next question I have is for Ms. Henderson.

Ms. Henderson, you talked a little bit about provincial regulations and the impact of different provincial regulations. Is that a concern? Is that something that we could be doing to make sure there are harmonized regulations and restrictions happening across the country? Would that be helpful?

[Katherine Henderson]

I'm not sure I can answer that one properly, because we take advice from medical officers of health, and I think the situation is quite different.

We know right now that for many sports, in order to deliver just a tiny bit of sport in a safe manner, we have to spend an awful lot of money and a lot of our resources putting something in fanless buildings, just to allow people to enjoy a tiny bit of sport. I think what we're really missing is, in fact.... I will go on the record and talk about curling. It's one of the last great interprovincial, interterritorial competitions there are. You truly have to be a Canadian. You have to come from that province and compete at any of our championships.

I want to go back to why we're here. Any help that you can give us.... What it's really about is these large events, which not only create economic impacts for people in the cities, as some of my colleagues have said, but the money we make as not-for-profits gets invested across the country again. You know, it goes to juniors and to young people who are starting out for the first time. It goes into our clubs, and it goes into places where everyday Canadians play.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Ms. McPherson.

Mr. Shields, you have five minutes, please.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I very much thank the people on our panel today.

Mr. Roy mentioned a deficit number, so what I'm going to come back to with Mr. Mitchell and Ms. Henderson is the sense that he's suggesting a number. I believe this is part of economic recovery and will be significant to economic recovery. In thinking about it, in the next six months to a year, could it be feasible to develop a deficit number that could be collated across the country that we could deal with?

Ms. Henderson, I have 30-plus rinks in my riding—not quite as many curling rinks, but they exist in all small rural areas in Canada. Mr. Mitchell, I probably have programs from before my colleague from Edmonton was born. I have the Fringe programs from the fifth anniversary, the 10th anniversary and the 15th anniversary, and I was disappointed when they went to buying tickets online, because the fun was to try to get into events and line up.

From your two sides, Ms. Henderson and Mr. Mitchell, is it feasible to get a deficit number and supply that within six months to a year so that we could look at a number? When money was funnelled down to organizations, as we heard in an earlier panel, the government lost track of it and of whether it got to the original artists at that level.

Ms. Henderson and Mr. Mitchell, could you respond to that question about a deficit number and the possibility of putting one together nationally?

[Katherine Henderson]

Would you like me to go first?

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Sure.

[Katherine Henderson]

I'm happy to do so.

Right now I can't speak to deficit numbers. In all of the sports I'm sure we could come together.

I think what we're looking for is just separated-out funds that would give us an ability to apply for them with a good business case in order to demonstrate that this money is in fact missing from the system.

I can use curling as an example. Last season we had to cancel the Women's Worlds and a number of our other competitions beginning on March 12, which was one of the sadder days of my career. Not being able to hold a number of events going forward, we predict that this year there will be about a $6-million deficit.

I can't speak for the other sports. We have put a framework in front of Minister Guilbeault. It has criteria and a business case, and we'd be very happy to review it with you.