Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 27th, 2020

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Was that enough?

[John Hinds]

I don't think it was enough, obviously. Was it enough to communicate effectively? I'm not sure. When we look at what a number of the provinces did, here in Ontario and Quebec, they had formal campaigns when every day or every week they ran ads in the newspapers to provide information to readers about the pandemic.

I think it was very effective and obviously was very helpful to the newspaper. People were looking on the sites and in the paper for information about COVID, and they were looking for their local newspaper.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

The criticism I've received in our offices is you get one or two ads in the big dailies and then the weeklies; the community newspapers are left out. Is that the truth?

[John Hinds]

I think in this campaign they did run ads across the country. One of the things we always hear is that community newspapers are difficult to buy and it's complicated and people don't like doing it, but I think the government pays a lot of money to agencies to do that, and they should do it.

I think in this campaign the support was pretty much in both communities and dailies in digital and in print.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

On your website you state how national newspapers are filling the COVID-19-induced ad void. How are you?

[John Hinds]

We're filling it with information. I think that's the issue. We had been operating without the ad revenue.

During the campaign one of the things we tried to do was work on a system of a programmatic ad network to compete with Google and Facebook. We've set that up, we're running it and we're hoping the federal government will work with us on that because it's a way of buying equivalent numbers or views across Canada in the program advertising market using Canadian sites.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

You are filling it and you're not. I look at the papers every day across this country. Those that had 24 pages are now down to 16 pages a day. I look at the Regina Leader Post and the Saskatoon Star Phoenix that have pulled Monday home delivery.

Many people still don't have digital at home and yet they're still paying for Monday home delivery that's not coming. I think the consumers are saying this isn't fair. In my case, I'm paying $31 or $33 a month for the Saskatoon Star Phoenix to be home delivered Monday through Saturday and yet Monday's paper doesn't show up.

I think that's an issue for consumers. They feel jaded on this. Nobody has stood up on their behalf and yet National Post coast to coast has made this decision. Where the consumers now are feeling jaded from the weekend news, they don't even get their information in the newspapers until Tuesday.

I'd like you to comment on that.

[John Hinds]

I think it's difficult. As I said earlier, it costs a lot of money to produce quality news. We're finding that nobody wants to put an ad in a newspaper on Monday; traditionally it has been the lowest readership day. The economics of distribution on Monday simply doesn't work. The alternative and the challenge that newspapers face is, if they aren't working, where do they cut? I think everybody's been trying really hard not to cut newsroom jobs, so the distribution costs on Monday is one of the ways to save money, but not cut newsroom jobs.

I think we all understand that it's probably not the optimum for the consumer, but that is unfortunately what the current climate dictates.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Mr. Girouard, I will go to you and AMECQ.

Local journalism is really hard in this country; I don't have to tell you. To have one person in the newsroom today could be the norm. How are you doing this? Home delivery is even in question now. People are nervous with COVID to even pick up a newspaper off the shelves. How is your association, AMECQ in Quebec, dealing with COVID right now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Your time is up now. I apologize for that.

I'll have to come back to you, Mr. Waugh. We're pretty tight on time.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

That's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Monsieur Girouard, if you can hear us could you please just wave your hand?

[Yvan Noé Girouard]

Yes, all is fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

We're just checking to see if you're still there. I apologize. We have to go to the next questioner.

Mr. Housefather, you have six minutes, please.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all of the witnesses.

Mr. Davis and Mr. Muir, on the last panel we had one of the theatres from my own riding, the Segal Centre, and I asked all my questions to them, so forgive me if I don't ask you questions. I did hear that your production of Anne Frank a few years ago was phenomenal. My cousin went to it and had rave reviews. Thumbs up to that. I'm sure I'll be speaking to you at a later date.

I'm going to go to Mr. Hinds. Mr. Hinds, I was glad to hear that the support from the federal government, at least with respect to the aid to publishers and the CEWS, was very helpful to your organization. I, like many people, actually prefer print media to digital. I want to make sure our newspapers not only survive, but thrive. I'm a little dismayed to hear of the small percentage of ads that actually went to newspapers.

Did you get a better number of ads from provincial and municipal governments during the course of COVID or were they also mostly going towards digital?

[John Hinds]

No. We found that...different provinces have different.... Ontario and Quebec really stepped up in terms of print advertising and consistent, effective campaigns. I would say that, certainly in Ontario and Quebec, the government put...daily in the dailies and weekly in the weeklies and very much with an emphasis on print.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Girouard, has the Government of Canada or the Government of Quebec advertised in the publications you represent?

[Yvan Noé Girouard]

It has only just begun. I saw advertising for the first time in December, but until recently there was none. To date, in 62 of our publications, the federal government has placed $35,000 worth of advertising, which is really very little.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I understand.

You talked about the various programs for which your members are not eligible. Near my home, there is a local newspaper that is entirely created by citizens on a completely voluntary basis. Is that the kind of organization you represent?

[Yvan Noé Girouard]

Yes, absolutely.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Okay.

You talked about a program that is very important to me, the Community Media Strategic Support Fund, which supports official language minority newspapers. In my riding of Mount Royal, the majority of newspapers are local. From what I understand, you consider that there are gaps in this regard, because French-language newspapers in Quebec whose employees work on a volunteer basis, such as the ones you represent, are not eligible for this program.

As you know, the Speech from the Throne spoke of the importance of promoting French in Quebec. So this is a failure, in my opinion. One of the ways to support French-language newspapers in Quebec would not be to implement a program for official language minority community media, but a program to support local community newspapers in Quebec.

Could this help your members?

[Yvan Noé Girouard]

Yes, absolutely. That’s what we would like.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Okay.

[Yvan Noé Girouard]

I would like to point out that 5% of national advertising is attributed to official language minority media. However, we are not in that situation.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I understand. I think this should be discussed with the Department of Canadian Heritage. Indeed, offering support to media such as the ones you represent would be a good step forward. I take note of that.

At the beginning of the meeting, you could not finish your speech because you had exceeded the five minutes allotted to you. Is there anything important that you didn’t mention that you could tell us in 30 or 45 seconds?