Evidence of meeting #9 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was festivals.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Catherine Cole  Principal Consultant, Catherine C. Cole & Associates
Clément Turgeon Thériault  Director General, Regroupement des festivals régionaux artistiques indépendants
Julie-Anne Richard  Director General, Réseau indépendant des diffuseurs d'événements artistiques unis
Alex Sarian  President and Chief Executive Officer, Arts Commons
Frédéric Julien  Director, Research and Development, Canadian Association for the Performing Arts
Elio Antunes  President and Chief Executive Officer, ParticipACTION

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

I have a very brief question for you.

In the structuring measures that you say are necessary for the recovery, you spoke of support for boldness. I find this idea very interesting. Can you elaborate on the importance of creativity and originality?

11:40 a.m.

Director General, Réseau indépendant des diffuseurs d'événements artistiques unis

Julie-Anne Richard

I'll give you a brief answer.

In their mandate, multidisciplinary presenters have a mission to support disciplines that reach a potentially smaller and more niche audience, such as contemporary dance and classical music.

However, the business model requires more profitable shows to balance these budgets. Given the pandemic, the weakened budgets and the deficit fiscal years that will certainly be a reality for organizations in the coming years, it would be tempting for presenters to simply focus on safe disciplines such as comedy, for example. We know that comedians fill theatres.

However, support programs that really specialize in boldness would enable presenters to absorb some of the financial burden, because these disciplines often run at a loss when presented.

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

That's very interesting.

Thank you.

I'll let my colleague Mrs. Desbiens continue.

11:40 a.m.

Director General, Réseau indépendant des diffuseurs d'événements artistiques unis

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

I want to thank my colleague and all the witnesses.

My question is for Mr. Turgeon Thériault.

Since we've discussed the concepts of predictability, I'd like to hear your views on how festivals in the regions affect tourism retention and the vitality of the community.

11:40 a.m.

Director General, Regroupement des festivals régionaux artistiques indépendants

Clément Turgeon Thériault

Festivals have a huge impact in the regions. The benefits, especially the economic benefits, are obviously considerable.

This goes beyond economic benefits. Take the example of our festival in the small town of Baie-Saint-Paul, near Quebec City. A festival is often a very important promotional showcase for a region. Many young people discover the city through the festival and they'll want to return. People regularly find Baie-Saint-Paul so outstanding during the Festif! that they decide to come and ski there during their winter break. This idea of promoting the regions through our festivals is very important, in my opinion.

On top of providing economic benefits, festivals are a source of pride for communities and the public. Dozens of loyal volunteers return each year. Young people also do internships at the Festif! and at all festivals in Quebec. Festivals are an important way to engage communities. The social benefits are considerable.

Most festivals, especially festivals in the regions, work with people in the regions, such as brewers—

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Turgeon Thériault.

Sorry to interrupt you, but we must move on.

Ms. McPherson, for six minutes.

November 30th, 2020 / 11:40 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. It's been very interesting and informative to hear from you.

I want to thank Ms. Cole for joining us today, and speaking so strongly about the needs of museums, particularly museums that are in smaller communities that are run by volunteers.

Ms. Cole, you spoke about the audience collaboration being disrupted. In particular, I'm interested on what the impacts of that would be in those communities you talked about that don't have access to strong enough technology.

Could you discuss how COVID-19 has had this deep impact on indigenous communities, on remote communities, and what you think those rebuilding initiatives should look like?

11:45 a.m.

Principal Consultant, Catherine C. Cole & Associates

Catherine Cole

I am working on planning a feasibility study for the Nunavut Heritage Centre in Iqaluit. We have been unable to do any community consultation related to that project, aside from telephone calls. It's really important to bring people together in a room, to have the elders speak to the community members, to have people listen to what they have to say, and to think about how to move the project forward. That's not able to happen right now.

Communities are extremely protective of their elders, and as you know, many indigenous communities are in dire straits. Nunavut has been really hard hit in the last few weeks. I understand the breakout in Rankin Inlet occurred because they were medevaccing somebody from Arviat who had to stay in Rankin for several hours at the airport, and then infected people in Rankin on the way out. These are really fragile communities.

They were fragile before. The loss of traditional culture among Inuit people is a really serious emergency situation for Canada. The importance of these heritage centres...One just opened in Labrador and another one is under development in Labrador. Ours is in Nunavut. Much like the small rural communities we were talking about before, they have an important role in terms of coalescing the sense of community identity and pride, and connecting people to the world.

We've been talking about developing virtual educational programming for the schools, but their schools haven't been able to go online. The teachers in their schools are writing up assignments. The kids come into the school, pick them up, and take them home to do. They don't have computers at home. They don't have that kind of access. It's easy for us in the south to just say, “Well, just go online.” It doesn't happen that way, so it's a very dire situation.

The federal government has announced some funding for additional infrastructure for indigenous centres, and we're hoping we'll be able to access that for our centre, but then, of course, it's the operating funding that will always be difficult to get.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Yes, it's a challenge.

One of the things you talked about is the challenge of accessing that funding, and how the reporting is onerous. The standardization among the different levels of government is onerous.

What recommendations would you put forward to the federal government on that?

11:45 a.m.

Principal Consultant, Catherine C. Cole & Associates

Catherine Cole

We need to streamline things as much as possible. Obviously, we need accountability. I'm not questioning that. I was talking to a colleague last week who said that for the emergency funding, it took her literally 20 minutes to fill in the form to get a huge amount of money compared to what it takes for us to get the $30,000 to hire two interns through Young Canada Works.

The emergency funding has rolled out quickly, and relatively easily for people. Why is the ongoing funding so difficult?

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

As someone who has worked in the charitable sector for decades, that is not the only federal funding that is onerous to access.

11:45 a.m.

Principal Consultant, Catherine C. Cole & Associates

Catherine Cole

They all are, yes, and to be honest, it's not just federal funding either. I was doing a focus group with people in B.C. once about their arts funding, and one of the people in the focus group said, “We might as well fill in the application in our own blood.” The person who hired me to do the work asked me to take that line out. I said, “Well, she said it.” This is how people feel about how onerous the reporting structures are, so they need to be simplified.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Maybe that's one of those silver linings from COVID-19, that we now know that it is possible to do this in a way that is less onerous, particularly on small volunteer-run organizations.

11:45 a.m.

Principal Consultant, Catherine C. Cole & Associates

Catherine Cole

My comment about not needing to have full-time paid staff to be able to apply for some of these things...The first time I applied to the museums assistance program for the Commonwealth Association of Museums I was able to apply for it, but the second time a rule was in place that you had to have full-time paid staff in order to apply. That was just deliberately shutting us out of that program.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

It was particularly onerous, yes. Then you talked about—

11:45 a.m.

Principal Consultant, Catherine C. Cole & Associates

Catherine Cole

It was impossible because we didn't have full-time paid staff, so we couldn't apply. There are the people who say you have to have an audit. If your budget is $75,000 a year and you have to pay $5,000 of it for an audit, it's just disproportionate to how much money you have. You need to have reviews in those situations, not full audits. It's just that kind of flexibility....

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

It seems they are very easy fixes, too.

I don't have very much time, so I have one last question very quickly. You talked about what we could do for volunteers to make sure that they are better supported. Would the federal government providing some kind of insurance program be helpful?

11:50 a.m.

Principal Consultant, Catherine C. Cole & Associates

Catherine Cole

Yes, that would be helpful. I know the Canadian Museums Association does provide a lower rate of insurance for board members, but even that is prohibitively expensive for some people. I know of situations, like a theatre board I was on. People came in to join the board, found out what the situation was and walked out of the meeting saying that they couldn't be a part of it because it was just too risky.

I know people who have put their own personal line of credit on the line for the organization. That's too much.

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

It's unsustainable.

I'm probably out of time, but from one Edmontonian to another, thank you for your time.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Ms. McPherson.

Mr. Waugh, you have five minutes, please.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

You know, today is the economic update by the federal government. We all know they're well into $300 billion since COVID hit. We're probably headed to $400 billion. When I hear funding for two years through to five years, we all know that the federal government and taxpayers will have a profound change heading out of COVID, without question. I see it here in Saskatchewan with the museums that are struggling. Every arts and culture sector in this country is struggling.

I'll start first with you, Mr. Turgeon Thériault. You have 80 festivals in Quebec and you had some very good numbers on the rent and wage subsidies. A lot of these festivals shut down in 2019 in the fall, when they were done. It could be two years now before they resurrect themselves because they didn't have 2020, so your base is gone.

You talked about sponsorships. Companies will definitely be looking at ways to reinvent themselves as we go forward. This is really a serious situation that you have because you do a lot of beautiful rural festivals in Quebec. That's where the culture in Quebec is the most important, as you well know.

We're losing the younger group that needs to experience what culture is all about. We haven't had it for over a year, maybe two years in some cases. Maybe just talk about that if you don't mind.

11:50 a.m.

Director General, Regroupement des festivals régionaux artistiques indépendants

Clément Turgeon Thériault

We think it will be possible to hold festivals in 2021. However, we don't think it will be possible for them to resemble the festivals held in 2019, with huge ticket counters and free performances where people can move around without a wristband, for example.

For 2021 to happen, we need the government to sit down very soon with key event industry stakeholders to prepare guidelines that will help us in the summer of 2021. It is still possible to save the 2021 summer season, but we need clear guidelines from the government to know what the probability of allowing gatherings of 250 people with two-metre distancing is, for example. We are a creative industry and, with guidelines in place, we could work with those guidelines to be able to host festivals.

I agree with you. Losing a year of festivals is extremely difficult; losing two years will be even more difficult. We risk losing certain resources with a corporate event memory. For example, if a sponsorship professional who is working for a festival decides to leave because they no longer have a job, that festival just lost an important funding resource. Everything could ramp up quickly.

I said this quickly in my remarks, and I think that my event industry colleagues will agree. We will quickly need government guidelines. Normally, at this time of the year, I already have 70% of my programming confirmed. My partners are already confirmed, as well as the Hydro-Québec stage. I currently have none of that. I have only one confirmed artist. We will need government assistance. We must find ways to ensure that something will happen in 2021.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

The government announced $500 million, and $72 million went to sport organizations. I believe they still have $18 million. At least when the minister came to committee about a month ago, they still had $18 million out of the $500 million they wanted to disburse. Out of the $500 million, then, how much did your organization and your people get? Do you know offhand?

11:55 a.m.

Director General, Regroupement des festivals régionaux artistiques indépendants

Clément Turgeon Thériault

Unfortunately, I cannot tell you the exact amount for everyone. I can talk about my organization, which has received emergency assistance from Canadian Heritage. Honestly, however, that's not enough to address all the issues.

It may be a good idea to put this question to Ms. Richard for broadcast locations and performance halls. Among other issues, there have been problems in terms of compensation for ticketing revenues that are not affecting festivals yet. So it would be useful to see how this measure applies in halls.

If I may speak about the provincial side of things, we have received more funding from SODEC, and most festivals have received more funding for their initiatives from the province than from the federal government.