Canadian Heritage Committee on May 31st, 2022

[Ian Scott]

I think it's both, with respect, and my colleagues may join me.

You made reference, and I was referring to proposed section 4.2, not by specific reference, when we talked about the CRTC's ability to prescribe by regulation user-uploaded content. It's very limited as my legal colleague has explained.

There is no subsection 2(2.1), as is proposed in Bill C-11, in the Broadcasting Act as it exists today. What I was really responding to—and I'm trying to put more clearly—was that, when the discussion takes place that says we are encroaching in new areas and that the legislation gives us new powers, the point was that we have had jurisdiction over broadcasting, that broad definition I read earlier, always. It has not been used in a detailed way. We have used an exemption provision. Now there are specific provisions in Bill C-11 that say the act does not apply to users, and then it circumscribes where user-uploaded content could be subject to any regulation.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Are you saying that Bill C-11 is more restrictive of the CRTC than the Broadcasting Act is?

[Ian Scott]

Yes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay.

[Ian Scott]

Maybe I should have just said that at the beginning. It would have been easier and wouldn't have used up your time. Pardon me.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

No, that's fine. Thank you. That's a good clarification.

Ms. Frenette, you just mentioned that there's a narrow scope in terms of user-generated content. You talked about all of the areas where the CRTC could not put into place regulations, but could you tell us where that narrow scope is? What is the CRTC able to do?

[Rachelle Frenette]

Thank you for your question. I can perhaps provide you with a few examples.

The commission could, for example, issue certain rules with respect to discoverability, could perhaps issue rules to respond to certain concerns on accessibility, but again, I think it's important to remember that to the extent that the commission exercises those powers, they can only apply to broadcasting undertakings. Users of social media aren't broadcasting undertakings.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Coming back to that definition that you provided earlier, Mr. Scott—that broadcasting is the “transmission of programs”, but that doesn't include those for “performance or display in a public place”—you're saying that user-generated content is excluded on that basis as well as on the sections that specifically exclude it as well, such as proposed subsection 2(2.1).

[Ian Scott]

Yes. That's right.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay. I have a couple of minutes left, so I'm going to go to a couple of issues that have come up during our hearings.

The first is the slowness of the CRTC—this has been raised by a number of witnesses—in being able to make decisions when it comes to broadcasting currently. How would you respond to that concerns that people have raised on giving powers to the CRTC in many respects? The CRTC has been very slow in a number of decisions that are pretty critical in the industry.

[Ian Scott]

I think it's fair to point to some decisions that have been slower than parties would like, and there are usually reasons for that. The CBC licence renewal has been mentioned. It's been almost a decade since the CBC licence was examined, and it was a very elaborate, in-depth and large proceeding. It has taken longer than I would have liked, but it is what it is if you're going to abide by principles of administrative law, in fairness.

I would also say, though, importantly, that we issue about 400 decisions and orders a year, and people are pointing to a handful, to two or three processes that are taking longer, so I actually would contest the premise of the question.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

People are raising concerns about how the CRTC is going to deal with—

[Ian Scott]

Yes, and I would answer that, in general, we are timely and efficient, and where we're not, there's good reason. It's usually because they are complex issues and we're building a record upon which to make a decision in the public interest.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. The time is up, Peter.

I'm going to go to the second round, which is a five-minute round.

I do not have a name for the Conservative speaker, so please let me know who that is.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

It's John Nater here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

John, you have five minutes.

Thank you.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the time.

Again, thank you to our witnesses for joining us. I don't want to speculate, but I think my colleague Mr. Waugh might be in the running for the new CRTC chair. I've been hearing that rumour and I think if it's repeated enough, it may—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ian Scott]

It's that or the young gentleman who appeared earlier today. I'm guessing that with a little rounding off he's a candidate.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Young Mr. Wyatt Sharpe would be a great suggestion as well.

Obviously, the CRTC is constrained and directed by a couple of different things, one of them being legislation itself, and the second being policy directives from the minister.

I want to start by confirming that you have not yet been given a policy directive on Bill C-11. Is that correct?

[Ian Scott]

Yes, that's correct.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Now, in the previous incarnation of this—Bill C-10—there was a policy directive that was released, at least a draft version, prior to Bill C-10 being passed, though it obviously did not receive royal assent. That was done. Is that correct?

[Ian Scott]

Yes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

When you're given this piece of legislation, we are, at this point, from a parliamentarian's standpoint, providing you with powers that will be further refined—for lack of a better word—by a directive from the minister. Is that correct?