Evidence of meeting #61 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was hockey.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Thomas Cromwell  Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Okay.

Hockey Canada was mandated by Sport Canada to join OSIC, in order to have funding restored. I'm wondering whether, in your review, you found any evidence that Hockey Canada wanted to join OSIC before this was mandated or enforced.

10:40 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

Very briefly, my understanding is that, in the past, the organization expressed some reservations about it, but that attitude has since changed.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Do you know why those original hesitations existed?

10:40 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

I'm aware of the reasons stated by Hockey Canada. They were focused on the suitability of some of the regulations and undertakings for their particular organization.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

What wasn't suitable?

10:40 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

I'd have to check some notes on that.

Going from memory, it seems to me—my colleagues can jump in to correct me, if I stray, here—that one aspect of concern was the disclosure of financial statements, in the sense that it might invite claims, if people recognized the size of the reserve.

There are a couple of other things that, frankly, have slipped my mind, at the moment.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Cromwell—

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

The six minutes are up.

Thank you, Mrs. Thomas.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

We're at the end of our time. Perhaps you could provide us with that brief in writing, since you don't have your notes in front of you.

Thank you, Mr. Cromwell.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Thank you, Mrs. Thomas.

We move to the Liberals for six minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Housefather.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Justice Cromwell, for your service to this country and the very excellent work you've done on the Hockey Canada file.

I want to start by asking you this: What audience did you write your report for? It seems to me that you wrote it to be read by a much wider audience than just the people who commissioned it at Hockey Canada. Who was your audience?

10:40 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

I would put it this way, Mr. Housefather. The audience was anybody who wanted to know what I thought about the governance of Hockey Canada.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

That's what I was thinking. I think that was appreciated.

At what point did you decide you were going to—and I think this is probably beyond the terms of your mandate—advise the board of Hockey Canada to not all run again, and to resign?

10:40 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

I became concerned that, from a governance perspective, the organization might be facing an almost existential crisis. I know you're very experienced in these matters and probably know more details than I do, but the spectre of what would happen to the organization, if all current sitting directors resigned, was—to use a polite word—murky. I became afraid, on one hand, that a precipitous act might be damaging to the long-term governance health of the organization. On the other hand, what had to be done was perfectly clear to any reasonable observer, I think.

That is why I advised the sitting directors not to renew their term or stand for re-election, but also not to simply, precipitously, all walk out the door.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

I think that was very wise counsel. Again, I appreciate that you took that step.

One of the things I want to ask you.... I saw a real misunderstanding out there, in some of the media, about the way you dealt with the NEF. For example, you answered the question Hockey Canada gave you by saying that of course it's appropriate to have a fund for uninsured claims. It's obvious that it's appropriate to have such a fund, if one's claims are uninsurable.

However, you went on, in your report, to criticize Hockey Canada for how it operated the fund. You said there was no proper disclosure; a lack of controls or definitions on how the money was to be used; cheques cut without proper internal disclosure and accountability; no receipts; and no record of the disclosure to members.

Would you agree that you were not exonerating Hockey Canada in your report, in terms of how they ran the NEF?

10:45 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

I wasn't trying to accuse or exonerate anybody. I was trying to set out the facts. Perhaps I wasn't as succinct as I could have been. As the old thing goes, I didn't have time to write a short report. I wasn't there to accuse or acquit anybody. I was there to study and assess the governance, and those were my conclusions.

December 13th, 2022 / 10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Of course, I'm using criminal law terms that I shouldn't be using, but I think what you discovered was a lack of accountability and controls in the way they ran the NEF.

There's one line you added to your final report that intrigues me, and I'd like to ask about it. At the last meeting, I asked Hockey Canada about the section of your report where you found that the NEF didn't fund the player health and wellness programs that, in a memo to its members in July 2022, the organization claimed it did. In fact, in your interim report you mentioned this, and in your final report you added a line saying that, yes, in fact, the NEF did not fund those programs. They were funded from the health and benefit trust, which was another reserve fund—with its own set of governance problems—that Hockey Canada had.

The timing of these untrue statements in July immediately followed the public revelations about the NEF, the meeting of our committee, the hiring of a crisis communications firm and, in fact, the board minutes where they weaved a different narrative in terms of accusing the press of maligning Hockey Canada.

I was wondering whether you thought this false disclosure in July 2022 that the NEF had these other good purposes was deliberate. Or was it, again, just poor governance and a mistake?

10:45 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

I didn't explore why the error was made. I simply tried to ascertain the facts about the use of the funds.

It's also perhaps important just to note the issue related to the counselling aspect of what had been included in the original memo to members that I believe.... I don't have it in front of me, of course, but going from memory, the memo that went out to members mentioned a number of purposes for which the fund was used. If you have a look, if you happen to have the report handy, or wish to look at it later, we have a chart on page 152 of the report.

You'll find that at page 165 of the French document.

You'll see under item 4 that certain donations to various organizations, such as “telephone helplines” and so on and so forth were in fact made from the national equity fund. The point that was not made was the counselling fees, and we were ultimately advised that those were paid out of another fund, the health and benefit trust fund.

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Thank you. I have limited time, so I'm going to ask you one short question, Justice Cromwell.

Were you satisfied with how the nominations committee handled the recent announcement of their proposed candidates for the board of Hockey Canada? Did you follow the process? Were you satisfied with the way they did it this time? Did they follow your advice?

10:45 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

Let me answer that in two ways very briefly, if I may, Mr. Housefather.

The first is to say that I've had zero involvement in either the recruiting selection or the nomination of candidates, so post the process, I've certainly had no role to play in any selection aspect of their work. What I know about it is what I've read in the press, and all I can say is that it certainly appears that the nominating committee tried extremely hard to recruit the sort of board with the sort of profile I recommended.

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Thank you very much.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Thank you very much. We'll move on to the Bloc and Mr. Lemire.

10:45 a.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Cromwell, I, too, would like to congratulate you on your report. I must admit I was one of the skeptical ones given that the review was launched and paid for by Hockey Canada, but you have produced a document that will be useful not only for hockey but for the entire sports sector. I give you my sincere thanks. Indeed, it would have been risky to repeat the same actions that got us here in the first place.

My comments are in the same vein as those of my colleague, Mr. Housefather, who just spoke.

Your 213‑page report concluded that sports federations are at a crossroads and that they must become accountable. Your report has proposed numerous solutions, such as capping at 60% the number of directors who are of the same sex.

I would therefore like to ask you the same question: are you satisfied with yesterday's candidate nomination process?

10:50 a.m.

Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual

Thomas Cromwell

In all honesty, I do not have enough information to say if I'm satisfied or not. I'm not at all involved in the process.

According to the news reports, it is obvious that the independent nominating committee made a great deal of effort to submit a group of candidates with qualifications and experience in various fields, which is completely in keeping with my recommendations.

10:50 a.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

You made quite a few recommendations on the makeup of the board of directors.

Are you able to tell us if Hockey Canada will adhere to the Canadian Sport Governance Code, which applies to all national sports organizations that are recognized by the Canadian Olympic Committee, before the December 31, 2022 deadline?