Evidence of meeting #61 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was hockey.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
Clearly, they did not. That's why we're here.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Yes.
Would you say that there was a failure on their side to put in place a structure to allow for the proper processing of those complaints?
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Okay.
I notice in your report that you don't talk about racism or systemic racism. I would argue that systemic racism finds its way into Hockey Canada. Why, throughout this entire governance review, was that issue not addressed at all?
11:30 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
I think the short answer, as I tried to explain earlier, is that my view is that sound governance is the foundation of everything the organization does. Clearly, every organization has to confront issues of sexism, racism and homophobia. In order to do that effectively, they have to have a sound governance model in place. I was very much trying to work on that foundation.
I wasn't trying to indicate how that would lead us in various important directions as the organization came to terms with those important issues.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you, MP Coteau.
We'll move now to the Conservatives. Actually, I'm going to take the five minutes, if you don't mind.
Justice Cromwell, thank you for all your work. I think that around the table here we were really disappointed right from June, when we first had Hockey Canada officials here. They were, as you know, very secretive when talking about their funds. Then we found out they don't have only one fund but three funds.
You've done a very good job with your report here. Going forward, you've mentioned the serious gap between the board and the staff. Would you recommend that Hockey Canada hire somebody who's not there today to deal with this gap you talked about for the last hour, the robust framework and great deal of attention that are needed?
It's obvious, from what we've seen, that there is nobody in our estimation—at least, in my estimation—in Hockey Canada today as an employee who would deal with the serious gaps you mentioned in your report. Have you recommended to Hockey Canada that they look outside the organization to deal with the gaps identified by your report?
11:30 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
First of all, I think I indicated in the report that the first job of what I've called the “interim” board of directors is to hire a new CEO. The short answer to your question is that undoubtedly, yes, a new CEO needs to be recruited, and it will be that person's responsibility to make sure that the rest of the staff of the organization is made up of the sorts of people who are needed to carry out the mandate the board has given them.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
I think Canadians were shocked that this is a not-for-profit, yet has $153 million in three different funds. You exposed the third fund, which did not become transparent when Hockey Canada officials were here in June or even in July.
What are your thoughts on the trust factor of Canadians in Hockey Canada? The not-for-profit hiding money in three different funds, as we know today, and the officials transferring money from one to the other because they were scared that the insurance rates would go up or that people would come forward with requests, with more insurance to be paid for injuries and such from sexual assault or harassment, is troubling for Canadians. Would you agree?
11:30 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
I would refer back to my second interim report to the board in early October, in which I indicated that, in my judgment, the confidence of stakeholders had been irreparably compromised. That's why my advice to the board was not to stand for re-election when their terms expired.
I don't think I could say that any more clearly than I did in that document.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
They had to clean house. Your report mentioned that they had to clean house.
I will say that the nine people they appointed yesterday.... It's interesting because there is no representative from the Atlantic region. There is no representative now from Manitoba. There is no representative from Saskatchewan or the northern territories or such, and you recommended up to 13.
They took the first step on nine, but there are gaps that I see of the nine who were appointed yesterday, seeing that there are none from Saskatchewan, Manitoba or the Atlantic region. Could you comment on that? We have one minute left.
11:35 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
The first thing I think it's important to remember is that my recommendation was that an interim board be put in place with a mandate to act on recommendations promptly. However, as you pointed out, my recommendation was also to expand the size of the board.
As a point of legal precision, the election of those directors will happen this weekend by the members. They have not yet been appointed as directors. They are, at this point, simply nominees.
I don't want to comment on the specific slate, but I think it is fair to say that, if the rest of the recommendations are put into effect, it should be much easier for the nominating committee to ensure geographical representation from across the country.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you. That's five minutes.
We will go to the Liberals and Ms. Hepfner.
December 13th, 2022 / 11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Through you, I would like to thank Justice Cromwell for being here with us today and for answering questions.
I will pick up on what my colleague MP Waugh was talking about when it comes to the new board at Hockey Canada.
How do we know that the process to bring in new leadership has been changed, so that we have more diversity in leadership at Hockey Canada?
11:35 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
We will have to, first of all, examine whatever supporting documents they provide. I'm not in a position to assess how effectively my recommendations have been put into effect. My mandate ended on October 31, when I submitted the report, so I'm not sure that I can be of much assistance in advising you as to how you can be certain that all of these recommendations are put into effect, other than by observing what the organization does.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
I have heard concerns from some people involved that it's the same people at Hockey Canada making the same decisions and that nothing's really changing.
What has your perception been, watching the fallout since your report was released?
11:35 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
I certainly don't want in any way to usurp the role of the members in the election that's upcoming, but I feel comfortable saying that just looking at the bios of the people who have been nominated to the board, I conclude that the nominating committee has made serious efforts to implement the sorts of recommendations that I made. I can't comment on individuals, obviously, but it's apparent that a serious effort was made to improve diversity, improve gender balance, improve the range of experience, and so on and so forth.
It is clear efforts were made. It will be for the members and others to decide if those efforts have been successful.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you.
Out of all your recommendations, which do you think are the most important for Hockey Canada to implement to see a brighter future going forward? Which of your recommendations would you say are the most important to implement right away?
11:35 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
I have no trouble coming up with that list.
Number one is that the whole nominations process is vital, because if you don't have the right people around the table, it's going to be a problem.
Second of all, it's to work hard on a transparent and detailed policy framework for the kinds of tough decisions that the board will have to make and to provide that framework for staff so that the board can monitor their work.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
I heard you talk about not wanting to blame Hockey Canada for all of the problems with culture in hockey.
I'm wondering if you would opine on how much of the toxic culture was supported or maintained by the culture at the top at Hockey Canada. To what extent did the leadership at Hockey Canada perpetuate the problems with the toxic culture?
11:40 a.m.
Senior Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, As an Individual
I'm sorry, but I can't offer any informed view on that.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
We'll go to the Bloc for two and a half minutes, with MP Lemire.