COVID-19 Pandemic Committee on June 11th, 2020

[The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

We will go now to Mr. Seeback.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Measuring the COVID response and the performance of your country versus other countries in the world is an important indicator of your success in that fight.

Could the minister advise what the infection rate per million is in Italy right now?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Madam Chair, I think a better measurement of how the country is doing in terms of our response to COVID-19 is the number of infections and deaths in our own country and the comparative capacity of Canada to respond to the infection. I am proud to say that we have—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, that's a much longer answer than the question I asked.

[The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

I am sorry, but we had some technical issues. That's why the minister was continuing to answer.

Go ahead, Mr. Seeback.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

The infection rate right now in Italy per million is 6.9. Does the minister know what the infection rate per million is in France right now?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, I'm not sure what the line of questioning is of the member opposite, but I can speak to Canada's experience with COVID-19 and our current work to protect Canadians' health and safety. I'm happy to answer questions about our domestic response.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, the rate of infection per million in France is 4.6 right now. Does the minister know what the infection rate per million is in Australia right now?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, all of that information, as the member opposite knows, is available on a number of different tracking sites. I think the member opposite is obviously trying to make a point. I'm happy to answer—

[The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

We will go back to Mr. Seeback.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The number is actually 0.49 per million.

I'm going to ask the same question with respect to New Zealand. I assume the minister does not know that number either.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, I appreciate the opportunity to once again talk about the tremendous work that the provinces and territories have been doing to protect the health and safety of Canadians.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, the infection rate per million in New Zealand right now is 0.03.

Now for an easy one. Does the minister know what the current infection rate per million is right now in Canada?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, again, I'm happy to talk about Canada's response to COVID-19 and how we're supporting provinces and territories to protect the health and safety of Canadians.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

The infection rate per million in Canada right now is 16. That is four times higher than many of our G7 counterparts. It's 40 times higher than Australia and 500 times higher than New Zealand. This is after borrowing close to $200 billion and shutting down our economy, with the enormous effects this is having on Canadians.

How can this government explain this abysmal performance in comparison with other countries around the world?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, it's a real shame that the member opposite is so harsh in his criticism of the work of the provinces and territories to protect the health and safety of Canadians. We know this is a shared responsibility. It has been a global pandemic, and of course the answer is a complex one, which I don't have time to provide, given the shortness of his question.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, our infection rate is 500 times higher than that of New Zealand. It is virtually COVID-free.

Suggesting that I shouldn't be asking these types of questions when our performance is so poor compared to other countries—40 times that of Australia—I don't think is appropriate. We are on the verge of reopening our economy all across this country, and our rate is so much higher than other countries. How can the minister justify the performance of this country versus Australia, New Zealand, Germany and France?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, I see the member opposite is cherry-picking countries that have had lower infection rates than Canada, while leaving out others that have had tremendous infection rates. We know there are a number of complex factors that go into how a country fares with coronavirus.

I will say this, Madam Chair: I'm incredibly proud of the work of my colleagues at all levels of government who have worked so tirelessly over the last several months to protect the health and safety of Canadians. We know there is more to do. We know—

[The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

We will go now to the Honourable Jody Wilson-Raybould.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Independent, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

While there seems to be general consensus that systemic racism exists in Canada, there's been much recent debate about what it means. Can the government please tell this committee how it defines “systemic”, and provide specific examples of policy and legislative initiatives that are under way or being considered?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Chair, systemic racism and systemic discrimination exist within our institutions. That's why it's important that at the decision-making table, you reflect the diversity of our country. That's why we brought forward a new appointments process. That's exactly why we have an opportunity right now to ensure the programs and policies we put in place are informed by lived experiences.

These are the measures being put forward. We have an anti-racism secretariat, as well as an anti-racism strategy that was created by Canadians for Canadians, and we look forward to working together with allies in all parties.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Independent, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I didn't hear a specific definition of “systemic racism” there, but I'll move to my next question.

With respect to indigenous peoples, would the government agree the Indian Act is one of the most, if not the most, egregious examples of systemic racism in Canada, in particular in sections 5 through 17, where the Crown is still legislating and determining who is legally an Indian, and sections 74 through 80, where the Crown is still legislating how those people so define and govern themselves? Would the government not agree that these are both examples of systemic racism?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I believe our government is working very hard to get people out of that colonial piece of legislation, the Indian Act. Working together on that path of self-determination and rights recognition whereby nations will determine who are their members will indeed be one way out of the systemic racism that has faced indigenous people coast to coast to coast.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Independent, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you. I'm not sure I heard agreement with my question.

Surely it is the height of racism when one group of people tells another who they are and how they make decisions about themselves. Does the minister agree that the determination of who are indigenous persons and how they govern themselves and make internal decisions should be an exclusive power of a recognized indigenous people?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think the member and I totally agree on this. As we move to self-determination and to nations determining who their members are, we have really no right as a country to be telling nations who and who are not their members. That is why we hope that in the future the Indian registrar position will no longer be necessary, as all nations in Canada are able to determine who is and who is not a member of their nation.